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Cyrene will continue working with this unfair, predictable and exploitable system?

Discussion in 'Materials and Resources' started by anonymous256, May 9, 2014.

  1. anonymous256
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    anonymous256 New Member
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    I apologize in advance for my bad English is not my native language.

    hello I'm a newbie who has over a year living in Cyrene and I remember when I hunted the loot came randomly.

    I had not heard that now the loot comes in waves, because I was happy with the dailies mining, and collecting sweat and when doing my monthly deposit hunted a bit but fortunately or perhaps because Cyrene was more uninhabited if he could get good loot with mu.

    So recently I decided to go back to hunt more often and I realized that if I hunted only getting garbage (muscle, eye, oil residue, residue robot, robot filther etc) sometimes good things but they were getting say 2 sea writh hide or other skins of Cyrene.

    and look at the auction and see that other settlers sell large stacks of skins or parts of robot then I ask how you do to get those amounts of expensive materials.

    So I decided to do a little research and I realized that there are several people camping in the spawns sometimes for more than 10 hours and I also realize that other avatars I connect every hour near the spawns.to fire when the waves are here, by the way these avatars will naked and some have similar names like other hunters and cyrene seen so I guess they are alts or perhaps coincidentally but rarely so many coincidences.

    Right now because I think this is unfair loot: good because people do not know what the waves only get garbage and considering that the returns are 65% -75% of everything is crap and not passing 105% mu, most people do not know and do not have time to be waiting for the waves (in my case can only be 3 hours a day online) will be fried and this affects people coming from other planets because only gets garbage and just get lost will with a bad image of the planet.

    also affects crafters if someone wants to be a crafter and focus only cyrene bps must pay the ridiculously high asking prices campers.maybe other people will not see the problem but personally feel very unfair, that the loot should come from random way because when the waves are the very few materials we provide and the people who are camping does overkill on mobs and captures all good leaving only trash loot.I say all this because research and good loot are always taking by the same people that you can see in the auction always the same people selling stack of objects with high mu.

    Now because I say it is predictable?good because the waves arrive every 45-75 but campers know exactly when to start shooting

    Now because I say it is exploitable?good because fortunately touched me to be online when some campers are not, perhaps just are sleeping but when the wave is coming some naked avatars are connected and kill mobs and disconnected when the wave is gone.

    I think these avatars are alts, because headdress see me doing the same spawn other avatars with the similar name by connecting to kill some mobs only when the wave reaches high mu and off when the wave is gone.

    I made this post with the illusion to get an official response, not trying to fight with anyone or create controversy, now I feel like a fool running from side to side, trying to get good loot, to counteract a bit lost.
  2. Thanatos
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    Thanatos Fate Thanatos Themis
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    well, im just a player, but i spend alot of time here, so maybe how i see things will help too :headscratch:

    - the waves of loot its an issue on MindArk, and entire game, not Cyrene only. Just check some threads on other forums about events with great rewards, that were about collecting rare drops.
    Afaik MA noticed the issue, working to fix it. In fact those waves lost its regularity, but exist still, and its same for all the Entropia Universe.


    - im not sure about why ppl would want to camp mob spots with alt avatars, but same names of auction sellers are easy to explain - there are just few ppl who play here that much to make large stacks in storage, some of them sell its old belongings, some do resells. But yes, expecially those last, try to manipulate the prices, "play the auction", and it sucks.

    I hope that in time this thing will change - more ppl playing will create some sort of price competition, and prices will fall down.

    I suffer from that myself too, for example while crafting cyrene amps - with current MU of materials, the cost of crafting an amp makes its finall price much higher than other amps have, from other planets, so i cant sell mine not losing same time. :shots:

    About loot waves - we got to wait for what MA do about it.
    About loot prices - i rly hope more ppl playing here will fix this issue itself, and there is a chance it will happen with Hard Launch of Cyrene (some ppl say it gonna happen this year! )
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  3. Fifth
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    No idea what weapons you are using, so i just took 2 random weapons, both widely used, neither requiring any uber skills:

    Imperium Issue HK 400 + A102 amp -- 24 dmg @ reload 42/min = 11.7 dmg/sec (effective dmg)
    Svempa XT + Dante amp -- 135 dmg @ reload 60/min = 93.8 dmg/sec (effective)

    See? That's almost 10 times difference. If using enhancers the difference grows even bigger.
    Here's the simple answer to the "Where they get that much loot?" mystery.

    What about loot waves, in my experience it doesn't pay to try to catch them, too irregular.
    Besides, there's many other factors that override this one small factor. So, nevermind the ppl who think they can exploit the system that way. In the long run they don't gain any advantage, besides successfully fooling themselves.
    Or maybe we should say the system is successfully fooling them... :p
  4. jetsina
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    jetsina Active Member

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    Hello A256,
    when you started a year ago the loot wasn't random either, but you didn't realise.
    The waves of loot issue is indeed a problem all over EU, but the low number of players on Cyrene exaggerates the differences in my opinion. Also, the new loot cycle may only have just a few goodies available, so you'd need to be quick on some of them. THIS would be a reason for alts saving the time of travelling to a spawn of a different mob (or the cost of a fast teleport), for example.
    If you think I'm joking about being quick, then I can tell you that with the really low population a lot of the time, I could often tell if someone else was hunting the same mob as me even though they were off my radar, because a wave of loot might stop quite a bit faster, meaning more loot pool calls were being made than just by me.
    Other 'waves' are more relaxed as the available loot is higher in each refill, but they are still there all the same.

    I know that I can certainly influence what average loot composition I can get if I want to pay attention to it and I do actually HATE that!!! It means that if I want to make my loot mu go up, it is like placing myself at the sushi bar close to where the sushi starts its journey past all the customers. I can greedily hog my favourite dish if I want, while people further down the line almost never get a chance to taste it! They may not even realise that some dishes even EXIST!

    In this respect my time on Cyrene while it has developed through the soft launch has certainly been educational. But if I were a sushi bar owner (or MA) I would make sure things worked a little differently!
  5. anonymous256
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    anonymous256 New Member
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    hello fifth look for some if it is profitable.
    when the wave reaches tide claw if you kill them give only 8 cracked shell, crystal pede only 14 hides, 4 Paneleon tail tip, and 8 medium grade power supply etc.. so if you kill about 10 mobs just leave it empty until the next wave

    for that reason it is unfair and talked to friends who are in calypso and arkadia and they tell me that on those planets is not equal for example fouls foul bones can loot at any time of day and so.
  6. sostoned
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    sostoned Active Member

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    heres loot wave: every 45 minutes there is fresh loot, there will only be in whats available (read, whats used).

    find it out, its easy at cyrene

    so if you hunt 10 minutes every 45 minutes you will have best loot

    good luck


    btw, its easy to see and entropia wide, nothing to do with alts. And its only specific loot like flaxen or cracked shell

    If there is no hunt the stuff will stack till its hunted

    last thing, its 45 minutes, skipps few times on a day, not a minute more or less

    and ive reported it to mindark, its exploitable
    Last edited: May 9, 2014
  7. Lykke TheNun
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    Lykke TheNun Well-Known Member
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    TunerS likes this.
  8. sostoned
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    sostoned Active Member

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    my appologies about that, but its very frustrating to be hold for a pirate, wont happen again
  9. Kris | Cyrene
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    Kris | Cyrene Lo and Behold, the Fixer of Bugs Staff Member
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    Hey guys,

    This isn't something we have a lot of direct control over. I have pointed MindArk to this post to see what we can do.

    Cheers,
    Kris
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  10. Thanatos
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    Thanatos Fate Thanatos Themis
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    i think in old days (vu 4.x) there was a random loot system... but afaik it wasnt flawless too :(
    sometimes it was bursting with items, like shadow parts :D

    anyway, i think those loot waves became more random, more frequent and shorter - which are good changes i think

    Cheers
  11. jetsina
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    jetsina Active Member

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    Hi Kris,
    both Thanatos and I were commenting that this systematic problem is EU-wide because of the underlying functions. That is one of the reasons why I have not criticised this about Cyrene before, but it does tie in with the whole subject of what drops when and in what volume - and are they items or collected for use in crafting.

    I really don't want to run around Cyrene doing dailies with an alarm clock active to tell me when to go and do a quick 10 mins of loot grabbing, but even without a stopwatch I have found myself repeating routines simply for efficiency and remembering everything there is to do.

    I seriously hope you can persuade MA to make more changes to the 45-min wave and the whole loot allocation topic.

    PS - a parallel thread has been locked so as not to get too much off-topic in it (stated reason) o_O. I read that thread after this one, but it is relevant to the whole topic that the extension of playing for mu is to craft with capped mats at times when the number of players is lowest and then go out and get the ingredients back quickly in new loot! I have no idea whether this affects Cyrene at current population levels, nor do I know what exactly I may be missing out on by not hunting at 4 a.m or so, but I do know that I dislike this 'knowledge' and have always felt that Cyrene has more 'secrets' than average, some of which may even be filtering through from 'careless talk'.
    Now that this topic is out there in public a bit I think it should REALLY be put out there and talked about, instead of threads being closed as a 'precaution'.

    If threads cannot develop and show what is out there, then Cyrene devs cannot talk as 'forcefully' to MA about matters. I know that diplomacy is involved - it's not all :boxer:. Thank you.
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
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  12. Vuk
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    sorry about off topic comments Lykke" i need to open a thread "known pirates from cyrene":)didnt saw that person comment
    and if that was a threat fits to picture then...no more comment from me:)
  13. Lykke TheNun
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    This thread was created Friday and the other one today. The person creating the new thread is active in this one as well. Not to make misunderstandings about the purpose of locking the other thread, I made a link from there to here. This matter is important to us and also that we make the crew aware of it - but It's easier when we can point to the issue in one thread and don't have to point at 10 threads =)

    Please, keep the discussion on topic - as said, we appreciate your voice!

    Thank you!
  14. sostoned
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    sostoned Active Member

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    Vuk, for once and for all, stop accusing people if you have no clue.

    heres some forum stuff and i hope you will stop harrassing me now.

    http://cyreneforum.com/threads/accused-of-piracy.2385/

    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?259907-accused-of-piracy

    please leave me alone now

    sorry for offtopic but this guy doesnt know when to stop
  15. Fifth
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    Allright u beat me to it. :)
    I have never managed to get both good return (100% TT and up) while trying to farm only high MU waves. Never heard of anyone who knows how to do that either.
    Why bother with few peds more in markup if i can get few hundred more in globals? Unless the MU itself is measured in hundreds of peds, one factor overrides another...

    And no, i dont believe in the long term 95% return rule. :p
  16. jetsina
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    jetsina Active Member

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    Yes ok. What I also meant was that valuable info can then go missing as THIS thread does not contain all the same stuff and the other thread will quickly drop down out of sight.

    For me the valuable extra info for the devs in the locked thread is about people making potential use of the cap to
    a) hog the market of a rarish material
    b) craft at a dead time of day, knowing that the desired loot will then reappear as if to order for them to loot it up again.

    Now it is here too, so they should be able to see this.
  17. Vuk
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    umn i had order for 600 peds of ycy which was very rare half year from now..wasnt problem at all only takes time mu was over 300%
  18. sostoned
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    sostoned Active Member

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    Heres the posts in the right place


    How Cyrene is heavily exploited and why its so damaging for the planet.

    2 problems in the lootsystem that are causing much trouble here are:

    1. The lootserver that decides what type of loot you get (not the value) refreshes at fixed times. Its 45 minutes.

    2. Interesting loot with higher markup is capped.


    for example how to exploit cracked shell.

    loot server wil refresh every 45 minutes and calculate how much cracked shell can be looted.
    shoot tide claws just after server refresh as long as needed to empty lootpool. Nowadays usually after a few.
    keep the cracked shell.
    it will loot less and less, markup will rise.
    now craft with them on silent time of day
    await server refresh
    go hunt tide claws, you will loot them back.
    markup will be trough the roof because noone will be able to get them.

    This is happening right now with cracked shell. Its used in a daily mission so the daily missions are too expensive.

    It happened with dire weed flaxen
    its happening with jagged tooth

    so it ruins the crafting on cyrene.
    That ruins markup of other stuff.
    That makes an empty planet

    More space for exploiters.

    its circle.


    Planetpartner pays.
  19. sostoned
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    sostoned Active Member

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    IMAGINATION ON**

    Why Cyrene is a pretty dead planet.


    suppose youve never been on cyrene, this is what first impression will be.

    dang, what a freakin awesome planet but what should i do.

    theres no information, noone knows what to do. ill ask others.

    noone gives information, people have secrets here.

    then ill shoot some stuff, dang only shit because the good stuff is stacked.

    then ill mine a bit, dang only lyst and oil because its very concentrated in small areas

    then ill craft, shit where are the materials?

    dang, dang, dang, what a shit planet, goin home.

    IMAGINATION OFF**
  20. sostoned
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    sostoned Active Member

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    to add information:

    What i told about cracked shell is also working for esi's and for example heart oil.

    Especially esi's is hugely exploitable and its also done. (watch daspletor if someone uses the esi's)

    Its also done with items like guns. If you keep the empty ones it will be more rare(if cap is reached).

    big tt value is just less visible because you need a loot big enough to cover the tt value.


    following things are not 100% secure so i would like confirmation.

    In mining you can make use of the refresh system by watching what ores and enmatters are crafted. Big players can warn eachother btw.

    as soon as refresh has been go to a specific resourse rich area that has the resources that are crafted before last refresh. you will mine much of that specific resource.


    in crafting someone could collect the stuff he/she wanna make to empty the lootpool.

    The collected stuff will make the lootpool drain empty, crafters will bitch, cause very few successes.

    on a quiet night, tt the shit. and craft your ass off after refresh. lots of successes because lootpool is filled.


    Traders can buy most of a valueble stackable and make the markup rising. They can create shortage and make tons of ped with that.



    Problem with unlimited blueprints: some big crafters have unique blueprints of buy all available ones. That creates monopoly positions.



    ps, this is entropiawide, not just cyrene
    Last edited: May 13, 2014

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