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Developer Insights : Booths

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Kris | Cyrene, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. AxeMurderer
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    AxeMurderer Active Member
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    What is the definition for active shop? 1 sale per month? 10k sales per month? All slots filled up? Running ads or spamming the trade chanel and forums?

    May be the idea to get rid of empty booths is noble, but this will not do it. Not many people will invest the time, money and work it is needed for a shop to even get your first sale just to loose everything after 3 months. Better just give 10 PED universal ammo as reward. It is far better reward.

    May be some people that want to try it, but in few months you will have not active booths/shops again.
  2. San
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    Let's just wait for further details before passing any judgement. I do hate speculators hogging estates and everyone else who just sucks profit out of the game by non-participating and welcome any attempt to do something about it. In the end it's trial and error as with everything else. We'll see what works and if not it will be adjusted.
    Hec and Haruto Rat like this.
  3. harmony
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    I really like this idea. Booths/shops could give a nice boost to cyrene's economy. And if for some reason you can't sell them, this is a very nice way to release something to the cyrene players without having any obligations for longer then 4 months.

    Off course like others i have some reservations as well. I don't think any ubers will come over to win a deed for a shop that will only be theirs for a few months. It's not worth it for their time. But make sure that the deed isn't tradeable directly. People might sell the deed for a lot of markup to people who aren't aware that it is a temporary deed.

    Also there is a risk that most shops go to people that will just put 'junk' into them which will help the economy only a little. Off course that is their choice, so it can't be helped i suppose.

    Ideally you would want an active crafter as shop holder, that sells cyrene stuff with high turnover (we could do with some more cyrene mining amplifiers for example). But for option 1 and 2 i would take that into consideration. (if it's developers choice, go for someone that has the highest total tt amount on unique cyrene-specific blueprints?)

    Another thing to consider is how many items can be sold per booth. I've had shops on ark, cyrene and calypso as an enhancer crafter. If i would sell the most common enhancers (damage, accuracy, heal, economy, depth) and just one batch per level i already need 50 item slots. RT has shops with 500 item slots (really love it!).

    Also make sure you are able to take back the deeds (and return the remaining items to the owner) and the end of a period. If for some reason it will take a month longer then originally agreed upon, or if something goes wrong, people will get very upset. (Kinda like if MA would introduce ring decay now after a year).

    But all in all, kudos on trying something new and unique once again, it's what i love about cyrene.
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  4. harmony
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    Maybe i'm reading too much into this, but just to be sure: there won't be a maintenance fee to keep the shop operational will there?
  5. Hec
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    I think we can all agree "investment" shop owners do absolutely nothing for the economy because their empty shops are unwanted as it leads to fewer players taking the time to visit "brick and mortar" shops.

    Another problem is players that only play EU or visit the planet quarterly/bi-annually/yearly and might bother restocking their shop then...

    Also players with big wallet aren't always your best shop keepers either (ie. Medusa). There's many reasons, but I'll guess the most common is it's not a challenge nor very interesting for them to count the pecs.

    Interesting that some people think only crafters should have shops or booths, however I disagree.
    But it might be good if Cyrene devs design an personal-manufacturing like item I'd call a blueprint-jukebox. Something that shop/booth owners could load with BP's and put them up for sale by giving players a directory and/or text search, otherwise it sits in shop/booth area like personal manufacturing unit which allows any player to access it (if they have permission to enter shop/booth).

    Anyways maybe try to avoid most/all shops getting owned by 1 afk (ie. medusa) "investor" so consider capping the number booths+shops a single player can own on Cyrene, and it's better to think of it now and do it before anything is released.
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  6. Hec
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    Hec Active Member
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    However the OP said booths so this topic has nothing to do with shops or investing in a deed since the cost will be free. Also as per the OP no booths will be owned.
    Therefore this is more like a real life business of keeping a well stocked booth to keep the sales rolling. We've all seen this type of thing in brand-new or old-dying malls/plazas where they let small vendors and sidewalk vendors try to freely generate sales but it's really a way to gain interest and attract more shoppers.

    So what we should be asking is:
    What can Cyrene can do differently to keep booths stocked?
    Maybe avoid what prevention measures have been tried in the past and failed?!.
    - Players bought booth/shop deed, plus sales taxes, plus monthly quota-fee = permanent empty shop w/owing.

    So how about a renewable prepaid Lease that's player bound with a month long contract period???
    - No sales fees/taxes for booth sales at least during pre-launch.
    - Avatars do not get Booth Deed, instead they'd get a Booth Lease
    - Booths have a month long lease time.
    - The chosen first 6 individual players get the 1st month free.
    - Pay for the next month before the end of the current month's lease period.
    - Can only pay for more then 1 month beforehand. (If checking/restocking often then 1 month is plenty)
    - No auto-renewal for the player, manual only and must be done at the booth.
    - If not payed then at the end of lease period everythings returned to the players storage and the booth's lease contract immediately goes to Cyrene auction for the shortest period of time (24 hours) with starting a bid of 50ped? If unsold it returns to auction for twice as long 2 days, then 3 days, etc. after 7 day auction (total of 28 days pasted) the value goes down by 1 ped.
    Ofc how much per month? I'll suggest 10 ped in these first early pre-hard launch months then consider raising it after hard-launch.

    - If possible then during the leased month, the player gets a reminder to pay for next month every time they enter/access their booth, plus in-game message-mail thingy every 5 days, until they renew/pay.


    Of course coding all that at the back end is what'll kill it for Cyrene devs because MA would have to be consulted, MA will change it, more jibber jabber, etc. then after using several crowbars maybe MA would implement it after messing it up so bad it resembles nothing of the original concept.
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  7. Justine
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    Justine Well-Known Member
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    All this seems complicated to me.

    If a booth is well stocked, its ok. Lilmc or Kris can come in game for check sometimes if there is no abandonned booth.


    Put a quota is not a good way. Why ? Just come on Cyrene when there is an event on other planet and you will see. If there is no player on Cyrene, it mean no buyer. If a booth is well stocked and price are decent, it should be enought for the owner to keep the deed. This is simple. Don't forget, this is a temporary situation.
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  8. Hec
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    Hec Active Member
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    I agree quota is bad, that's why I suggested other things
  9. Lilmc | Cyrene
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    Lilmc | Cyrene Active Member Staff Member
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    Hey Everyone!

    We will have more details in regards to the booths, for now I can say the booths will be rent free meaning no monthly estate maintenance fee. Cyrene wants to make sure players who have the opportunity to use the deeds won't have to worry about the burden of large investment fees for shops. The idea of course is constructed in theory and will be observed on a trial and error basis. I would also like community know they shouldn't look at the booths as an "Event Prize" but more of an supplement to their winnings. When we get closer to events that will qualify for the booths we will announce to the community of upcoming events and prizes.

    -Lilmc
  10. Justine
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    Justine Well-Known Member
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    Sound good for me :)
  11. jetsina
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    There are various ways of looking at this, generally speaking, negatively and positively.

    To be honest, I'm not sure it 'can' be done on the platform side as planned without quite a lot of staff involvement - the events, assessment after 3 months (quarterly means 3 not 4!), taking back and reissuing deeds etc.
    On the other hand, depending on whether staff are being utilised effectively anyway at the moment, this might be a way of generating interest and cooperation again.

    The expression "It's better than nothing" is generally seen as being a rather negative attempt at being positive, but can also mean that something is a long way short of what is required.
    I think I'll go with "I think this is a step in the right direction!", but I would keep it VERY simple and not attached to winning different types of event etc.
    I think the number of items points will be very important, considering that just one set m+f of a Cyrene armour will eat up points, for example. I imagine that getting useful stock may also be a problem for any 3-month 'keeper' too. I have heard of "arrangements" in the past with players who have held events for new players, so just maybe there could be a way of 'helping' the running of a booth here too, if you get what I mean....!
  12. Justine
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    Justine Well-Known Member
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    Guys, be happy, they plan to do event on Cyrene !!! First time since i play they will do that.

    :D
  13. Spawn
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    "I would also like community know they shouldn't look at the booths as an "Event Prize" but more of an supplement to their winnings"

    A booth on other planets is normally an item that will sell 3-6 k peds depending on location.

    a 3 to 6k supplement prize.. Hmm I wonder what the main prize of such an event will be?

    I am looking forward to how it will all be handled. What this at least does is give us, the players, a bit of hope. And that is good news.
  14. Thanatos
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    Thanatos Fate Thanatos Themis
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    I'm happy to see that things moved forward, fingers crossed to keep it going this way :headbang:
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  15. AxeMurderer
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    AxeMurderer Active Member
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    Renting a booth for 3 months is cheaper than 3-6k peds.
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  16. Neo Jr XL
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    This...C-team please listen to someone who invested in few properties around universe. You always have such great game design ideas which get derailed in execution.
  17. Iceflame
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    There is something I have been agitating for, for a while... mostly. A swap Meet style Bazaar. Think about this for a minute.. Many aare concerned about people who just acquire a shop "on spec"... that is.. just to resell later and, usually, don't even bother to sell anything. Others are thinking about what stock the booth would have for sale. True, there is a lot of "dumping" in many places but, do keep in mind, One man's treasure, etc. Also consider this... how many have you seen have to advertise in the forums in order to sell their Storage/inventory overflow?.. this would provide a means of readily recycling Items that others may need, and be ecstatic about finally getting their hands on it. Lately, I had the good fortune to happen onto exactly that situation... for a REALLY good price, I might add. My point is this: If players were allowed to rent a space for a week, where they could display wares.. maybe 20-30 Item limit, it would provide an ongoing planetary income, as well as encouraging players to sell, craft and hunt on Cyrene. Also, it would draw players in, to browse what there is available... frequently.
    I shop on Caly most often because there is more offered there than anywhere else... which is a shame. I use the Auction because so MANY shops are being neglected.. sadly, right beside shops that are well maintained and stocked... truely, it's kinda depressing to see.
  18. Spawn
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    The only thing shops need is a shop directory in a section on the auction with a fee for transport, or you go visit the shop.
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  19. ntelinatsos
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    ntelinatsos New Member
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    yesterday i was thinking something about these booths.. i questioned myself..
    "if someone could rent you his booth for 3 months, how much you'll had to pay for it?", my answer was about 50ped, maybe 100ped top but i'm not 100% sure if i would give 100ped to someone just to rent his booth for just 3 months.. then i noticed that if i wouldn't give more than 100ped to rent one booth for 3 months, then booths worth not more than 100ped as reward..
    so i kept thinking.. what events cyrene's PP will run in every 3 months that the reward will be only ~100ped, big events like mayhems on caly or a just one hour/day duration event?

    i was amazed of what an excellent idea cyrene's PP thinked, to run events in every three months without basically giving any real prize!! (how you didn't think that 2-3 years earlier?)

    so, i want to see if these events worth our toil and money spent to participate for the certain prize.. i could take as plus that we could keep these booths for another 3 months if the revenue is high, but for me, that every summer i'm out of the game for two months, this is not a plus..

    btw, i'll ask you once again to sell these booths in auction and let players decide how much they want to invest to win one of these booths, or i'll wait to see what kind of events will run to worth our toil for this prize (unless you gonna give another gift as a prize and add the booths as bonus)

    I'm not a trader or investor but i'll be sure that i'll buy at least one of these booths if they added in auction and i'm pretty sure that the price will be more than 7k peds for each one.. depend on the demand, could reach up to 10-12k i guess

    thanks, stelios..
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  20. AxeMurderer
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    I charge 100 peds per month if you want me to use your booth.

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