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Trees?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Iceflame, May 10, 2017.

  1. Iceflame
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    Sooo, it has been a year... Are we talking "soon"?.... like..."I am just blowing you off... go away" soon? or reality soon like hard-and-fast date soon?
    Seriously..... if you need a tutorial in using Cryengine's "Populate" feature, just let me know... it's REALLY easy. Enough jerking your chains.. seriously, just say "Not for the forseeable future, we've got other problems to deal with"
    Seriously, if this is MA dragging their heels and saying "Not me, not me", SAY so. I won't get annoyed with you.. promise.
    P.S.
    Sorry for all the "seriouslys"
  2. Lilmc | Cyrene
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    Hey Iceflame,

    It's on our internal road map. However, we will need to release a feature before we can utilize it. I apologize for not having a specific answer you're looking for, if we have additional information we'll post it in the near future.

    -Lilmc
  3. Haruto Rat
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    My understanding is that, unlike other planets, on Cyrene large part of vegetation exists in the medium settings layer, and for low settings people the landscape is quite barren. Hence, in order to make harvestable trees, they need to make some more trees that are visible for everyone.

    Sorry if I just started another conspiracy theory. :)
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  4. Iceflame
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    Actually, in Cryengine, there are several ways to reduce load.. yes, one is to constrain a layer to specific minimums/maximums.... but, also, (And, yes this can get tedius ), you can specify the LOD for the stuff you are populating your terrain with... either wholesale... which we all see happening, as we "look" off into the distance, or for an individual item, or class of item. Using the layer can be tricky, as you need to make sure it aligns with the "main" layer everywhere... if you miss, LOL... you can end up with things floating in midair, or "blowing bubbles", 10 meters underwater. What the Cyrene team is trying to addres, help out with, is the Poly Count, (lower-end machines can''t do high poly count very well ). Most players have only a smattering of what is involved and will ascribe errors to what they either know, or have heard. From what I have seen, the Team has done a quite good job with what they have, to work with... one of the reasons I am so sold on making Cyrene my "home".
    Please understand... when I "jerk your chain" I am not being mean, or angry... more than anything, I am poking you in the ribs and sympathising... I used to do this kind of thing for a living and seriously sympathise . KUDOS, guys :yay::cheer::dancinggirls::cheer:
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  5. Kris | Cyrene
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    Kris | Cyrene Lo and Behold, the Fixer of Bugs Staff Member
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    Hello everyone,

    I can weigh it a bit on this:

    So it seems like you don't mean just having trees, which we have a fair amount, you're talking about the harvesting feature right? Going too the tree nodes and getting the wood is a bit more than just using the populate feature I'm afraid. Entropia Universe uses a modified version of the CryEngine so not everything is as cut and dry, especially when it comes to a new system like harvesting.

    I must admit that I don't know all the details behind the harvesting system and how it interacts with the vegetation layers.

    It's not exactly like this, while yes there will need to be some LoD (Level of Detail) adjustments to some certain trees, ideally we'd pick the trees that work the best on all/most settings.

    Lilmc is right about this: having the trees here before the land plots is sort of like " putting the cart before the horse", I'm not exclusively opposed to it though. I do think that it would be better to have both part and parcel.

    Would players be interested in harvesting here to go back to another planet to sell said harvested resources?

    Hey thanks!

    It's not really taken too aggressively here by myself or the staff. We take all feedback that we receive here and do our best to evaluate it fairly and objectively.

    Cheers,
    Kris
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  6. San
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    San Sandal San Tolk

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    :D

    Got out at the top or crawled off the trash heap? All the best.
  7. Paul Jetman Masters
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    so we are getting land plots like the others? would these be following the same gardening system as caly, or would we see a more unique use of them.
    If we are following caly, would there be a bunch of new bps for upgraded guns?
    i know you are likely to be unable to answer these in detail, but im curious

    it would be great if a new bps could be made using the wood, items like vehicle parts, gun handles and taming tools would likely use wood, even if its just a small amount in the bps, ppl could get a use from it while they wait
  8. jetsina
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    Hi Kris, nice post!
    "I must admit that I don't know all the details behind the harvesting system" - how can we help efficiently here? Maybe you can reply about anything from the following if you did not know it:
    - Arkadia has harvestable trees, but MA is only now going to start plot development for them [Ark], even though there are some land plots as Gold Rush prizes which winners will not be able to receive yet.
    - On Caly, tree components were required in crafting to make composite planks, which were needed to buy any plots except the smallest type. Thus, harvesting was introduced in advance of the slow release of plot areas. The main "price" for plots was the conversion of CLDs to CLD(X), however, as part of the original promise of land for CLD owners. I don't know what Arkadia intends, whether plots only released as prizes or with a materials cost too.
    - the building(s) on plots also currently require harvested materials, so that could also be an entry point, but as I've said, Arkadia has the trees already anyway.

    - the trees always spawn in the same place and stay until someone uses a harvesting tool on them, so once in the database they toggle between spawned dormant, spawned with an activated and running down timer, and despawned (invisible and not a physical obstruction) with a semi-random timer for respawning and respawn lvl (1-3). Lvl1 is maybe 90% of respawn, lvl2 maybe 9% and lvl3 maybe 1% of spawning probability.
    - higher levels provide medium and long boards if you have the right harvesting tool, but will only give short boards if you use a lvl1 tool on them.
    - devs have adjusted the respawning rates at least once on Caly and also relandscaped areas, removing some tree coords and adding others. As some trees have remained exactly where they were, this looks to have been a very area-specific intervention, so also possible for Cyrene.
    - some tree types are visible to all as harvestable due to a different shade of green, others only show from a distance as harvestable when pointed at via aim or when close enough (target ring shows in range 20m or so) with harvesting tool in hand.

    - the harvested components are already virtually useless right now as they are far too abundant compared to any use they have. Even the medium normal boards (not short, nor long) are in oversupply, with only the rare lvl3 longboards partially in demand.
    - the UL3 tool has been crafted such that they are cheap enough for anyone to own one, making (L) versions uneconomic. The basic lvl1 tool is available from the tt, but is only useful for getting skills (and making lvl1 trees disappear for a chance of a lvl3 many hours later when it respawns).

    As it stands, harvesting on Cyrene would be a 'soothing pasttime'. What I mean by this is that I find it relaxing and I enjoy feeling that I know the landscape well as I run around in it. It helps me in the sense of identity and place.
    That may sound a bit strange, but there you go... I think it could help.

    On a sidenote - what is up with the arrets not being tameable? that is another 'pasttime' I enjoy....
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  9. Iceflame
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    What they do with the boards that are harvested is pretty much going to be up for grabs, I think. I would suppose they have some idea of what they will eventually do, but, probably not fully fleshed out.. which, in my opinion, is a good thing... allows for some flexibility... .
    The Arrets.... I have to wonder if they have not become a "glut" on the market, as they are/were very, very, easy to tame.
  10. Kris | Cyrene
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    Hey guys,

    It's too early to talk about really, but why wouldn't we get land plots like the other planets? We're planet partners after all. Although I'm sure you've seen we don't really follow what Calypso does all that much.

    I'm not really up to date on what they do with their land plots though, how is it going with them, in your opinion (anyone can jump in on that) ?

    I think that having more crafting raw materials that aren't gotten traditionally would be dope, however, I don't know the viability of harvested wood being used for crafting, it's something that I can see about though.

    Hey thanks! I was more talking about the balancing or actual system parameters, but I'm happy to open this dialogue as I really don't know anything.

    So they are about as far along as Calypso when it comes to land plots and harvesting? (read that as they both have the same systems in place?)

    So harvesting trees was required to buy plots, that's really cool. Are the harvested materials between Calypso & Arkadia the same items, or are they planet specific?

    So the trees are really the "currency" for the land plots (at least so far)?

    Wow, that's dope, seems really in line with other MMOGs and their resource nodes. Are these nodes camped at all, or the respawn is too long so people sort of don't bother?

    3 levels of boards, sounds good, is it possible to refine short boards into medium or long boards (maybe nails =p ) ?

    As Iceflame pointed out above, it's really easy to place trees, so I have no doubt that we can complete this undertaking.

    So they are really layered in but still easy to distinguish, that's great!

    So I'm just going to retract my question about if there's any way to combine them. So what these components really need is a use!

    Alright, I do feel that in this case we'd more than likely be using the exact same tools as Calypso.

    That's really cool, so it's sort a "zen" thing to do, probably a TON less stressful than mining.

    Are there no level 3 tree spawns in areas fraught with danger?

    That sounds like a bug, as I know nothing has been changed with them. any other information you (or anyone else) is able to provide about this?

    That's my hope of course, especially if we can have Cyrene Medium Wooden Boards vs Medium Wooden Boards.

    Perhaps, it's the downfall of them looking so cool, maybe we need to reduce the classic Arret look and put in some new hidden colored ones.

    Something to think about for the future.

    Thanks for this dialogue guys, it always helps to have multiple viewpoints.

    Cheers,
    Kris
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  11. San
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    I do have an opinion, but maybe it isn't very qualified since I haven't gotten over the hurdle of finding it outright silly bumming around with this harvesting tool, before even looking at possible returns. I mean, there are limits to the sense of realism in a fantasy game, but for me there is both an upper and a lower limit to what I find acceptable. Others will judge this differently and some enjoy it. There is always hope to come around some day :) As with everything, early adopters either get lucky or pay a penalty.

    This is the most comprehensive info collection so far:
    http://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?291516-Land-Plots-Link-Collection
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  12. Paul Jetman Masters
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    Hi, sry wasn't meaning anything by it, sry if you thought i was been negative, was just wondering if it was the same system, designs and such.. or if it would be a more unique design.

    currently afaik (not a plot owner) you get to build your house but a selection of types (only 1 available atm) then you can add shopkeeper pads and build gardening boxes. the fruit seeds are used in caly bps to craft adj versions of other crafted guns, this is where i wondered if you were following the same system, the seeds grow universal fruit or a cyrene version, meaning only fruit grown on cyrene would be useable and if it would adj guns/armor. but either way cyrene homes is a great step
  13. jetsina
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    Hi Kris,
    nice reply, thank you!
    Ark is a long way behind Caly - it only has trees so far and land plot prizes that cannot be handed over because the plots do not exist yet. Caly has several settlements of mixed small, small+, medium and large plots on which so far one building type can be built and fruit boxes added to grow mats for crafting adj weaps (L). Each step costs quite a lot of mats, harvested mats from trees are not currently the 'limiting factor'. The 'plan' is to have better buildings available to be built on larger plots at some point....
    We do not know yet if Ark plots and buildings, fruits etc. will use Ark mats.
    Yes, it's quite a zen activity for me. The respawn time per individual tree is something like 8-24 hrs, so if someone cuts down a completely spawned area it will be 'dead' for a while. Usually, however, trees and their timers are all mixed up, so trees can reappear any time, but do so slowly. The lvl3 is on a randomizer, so you cannot camp any particular coords. Caly has changed respawn times to make densities lower for longer, so you pretty much have to cancel some runs in some locations and look for an area untouched for longer.
    There are some trees in lootable pvp, but the chance of a lvl3 is the same all over it appears, so no benefit apart from higher density if unvisited to a long time. Possibly you could change this with your own tree species - dunno.

    I've only read about the arrets and am not on Cyrene at the moment awaiting resolution of the errors.

    Thanks! :)
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  14. Iceflame
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    I was just on Cyrene.. 5 minutes ago... yeah, Arrets are not showing as tameable.
    :coffee:
  15. Kris | Cyrene
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    Hey guys,

    Oh no! I didn't mean anything by that at all, that's my fault, it's really difficult to convey tone through this text. You're all good Jetman =) I didn't think that at all.

    I'm always shooting for anything that we can do more uniquely here! To be honest I haven't really given it much thought, and have been more focused on the current development of the systems that are...lacking here.

    What sort of unique stuff would you like to see? (anyone can jump in here)

    I learned a lot about the current systems and what they are used for by jetsina, and now you! I'd like to keep it using Cyrene specific materials if possible (and that goes along with fruit as well, at least to a point. Keeping the players playing on our planet as well as having the things they get be useful is a priority (which I'm hoping is seen when the new crafting stuff comes in the next VU).

    This is good information, I'm open to any and all suggestions for what you guys think about how we should proceed with our harvesting / land plots / etc.

    Thanks for the information and feedback Jetman!

    Ah, so their at least 1 stage behind Caly in terms of what's available.

    If the trees aren't the limiting factor, what is?

    I feel like what Ark does in this regard will dictate a lot of what we can do, waiting to see.

    That's awesome, so it's really random and makes it a challenge to find the right trees and if they are spawned up.

    Just had a PM from a new Cyrene player who was looking for more reason to go into Lootable PvP, this might be a good incentive in the future.

    This is very peculiar, I'll inform the MA dev team at once.

    Good feedback and information on this thread. Big ups to all players involved in this discussion.

    Cheers,
    Kris
  16. San
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    Cyrene is more of a waterworld than most others. There has been chatter about introducing fishing for years now. Would you like to be the first planet that has it? In its most basic functionality, it would involve a weapon/tool that attracts mobs by a lure, and mobs that would be more or less attracted by specific lures. To what extent such a thing could be realized on the existing platform, or would require MAHQ to dedicate themselves to developing it, I don't know yet. If it were to be connected with land ownership in any form, it could allow a setup that doesn't require you to be present all the time, so that you could "harvest" a spawn as reward for the investment (waterfront property at a premium like in rl?) similar to how the new gardening system already works. But spending big before getting anywhere shouldn't be required to do it at all. It should be accessible also on a budget and made with an eye on new player retention. So a version where you could plonk yourself anywhere with your equipment should come first. (Hackfin might be more fun to angle than to shoot?)
  17. Iceflame
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    Unique?... lol... I can think of all kinds of things but, most would take more than a little work... such as the "flat-top trees you see in Africa.. with attendant populations such as a Leopard-like creature. We have desert areas.. how about "pop-up" denizens there?... how about, (rare), treasure caches..... Especially unique.... random Drill-bots that drop Ore particular to the area they are in.... San, you were talking fishing... how about fishing from Boats? there are several on Caly that don't DO anything... how about something more in line with actual fishing... even day-boat types... those could require the wood from OUR trees...

    One thing that has irked me for a while is the LOD on "prey" at LONG distance but, theoretically, still in the range of my gun... before they even get to the edge on my radar, they, visually, disappear.. not fair... I want to hunt "at range" to improve my ranged skills... and.. my settings are at High. I know, this is kinda off-topic but.. at heart, many of us ARE snipers. Also... there are good reasons for it.

    upload_2017-5-15_4-34-50.png

    Personally, I PREFER long range. ;)
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  18. Paul Jetman Masters
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    Im sure there will be agreement in this, if you can customize the buildings please make them like the old Janus buildings. If customizing the fruit grow isn't an option and adding fishing (as below) all the cyrene version bp's could be made to require Cyrene loot too, it would make players stay on Cyrene too.
    I'd like to see Adj eco amps, this would allow us in a way to upgrade our UL guns too

    Fishing sounds good and maybe the way to make cyrene gardening unique? add all land plots on the coast and make them fish instead of gardening and the fruit seeds are used as lures to catch fish. so instead of Bombardo seeds -> Adj Bombardo fruit, we have Bombardo seeds -> Hackfin. these fish can be processed into oils and used as lubicants in crafting

    imo its not so much a desert but a wasteland, much like Mad Max & even the Dusters are Warboy like. I would like the Wasteland to be extended, more collasped buildings, rusted metal/vehicles & the dusters spawns in camps. Instances could be added for treasure in underground duster vaults.
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  19. krasko
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    Just bring back the old map. :drool:
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  20. jetsina
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    What sort of unique stuff would you like to see? (anyone can jump in here)
    >I would like to see activity levels better implemented on the road from noob to ├╝ber. If fishing is somehow set within the resource 'gathering' platform, then have wood shavings (bulk useless material right now) be required for growing worms, required for low level fishing, low level fish maybe as the bait for bigger fish etc. Possibly the use of big fish catches would be as spawning totems for a mob that can only be hunted via this pathway. Cyrene already has several versions of 'limited access mobs', so maybe you could work in this uniqueness too.

    Make it so that lots of new players can usefully spend time on activities that more skilled players will probably not do any more (basic gathering), in favour of advanced gathering as the skills kick in. Here I mean more like lvl 30-50 for stuff rather than lvl 10 or so. The maxing of the lvl3 harvester, for example, is much too soon in my opinion. Please do better on fishing rod lvls, for example, if you get to design a suggestion for MA.


    Ah, so their at least 1 stage behind Caly in terms of what's available.
    >several stages behind Caly implementation, but the format now exists, so could be done anywhere faster, I guess

    If the trees aren't the limiting factor, what is?
    >Well, the rarety of a different mob loot board used to craft a building component and then the use of DNA, for example, in the fruit growing stages. This puts the mu of some stuff up to a few thousand percent even with only a few people active - i.e. very unbalanced.

    I feel like what Ark does in this regard will dictate a lot of what we can do, waiting to see.
    >I hope the balance is a lot better for whatever they decide to do....

    That's awesome, so it's really random and makes it a challenge to find the right trees and if they are spawned up.
    >if they are not spawned you don't know what they will be when they do, so you go looking for a (semi-)regenerated area and run through those trees, resetting also the lvl1s for the chance of a lvl3 at some point. Lots of areas are mob-free, by the way, but Caly has a lot more space. It doesn't have to be pvp to create a hurdle necessarily, having mobs around also changes the dynamics of who will gather in an area.

    :)

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