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Weapons / SIB / Levels and other stuff

Discussion in 'Community' started by sluggo, Mar 11, 2015.

  1. sluggo
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    sluggo Active Member
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    Weapon explain Final.jpg Hello everyone:
    I had a very interesting conversation the other day concerning weapons, Skill Increase Bonus', and what those numbers meant to you when you look at an items stats. Even some folks who have been around a while were not entirely sure what it all meant, so I figured we might want to post what we gathered up, because there may be others who are not fully in the know as well.

    I am going to post a screen shot of the typical screen you may see when you look at an items information and go over what the numbers mean to you.

    I have numbered on the picture, the important numbers and will go over each one and what exactly it means to you, how it affects your performance and pocket book.


    1. This tells the profession(s) you will need to use this specific weapon. BLP, Laser, Melee etc.

    2. This tells the 'recommended level' to use this weapon. This is kind of mis labeled as if you are not skilled to at least the number listed there, you generally can not use that weapon. It's more of a minimum level, not a recommended one.

    For our example here, looking at the picture it says Ranged BLP (Damage). I would look at my skills and see if my 'skill' in that is at least the number listed for the weapon at item 2. This weapon says I can use it at Level 0.0 meaning I can use it anytime. This may not be a good idea though as we will explain later.

    Some weapons may have 12 as the minimum level to use it. Unless ALL the skills listed for that weapon are at the level, I can not use it.

    NOW... Just because you CAN use a weapon, does not mean you can do so effectively or efficiently. You can use it but have not MASTERED it's use. There is a learning period for a weapon.

    3. Learning Period or Skill Increase Bonus. (Also called SIB)

    The SIB is going to have 3 'status' on it. It will generally say one of three things concerning it's affect for you.

    A. Not Yet - You are not skilled enough to use the weapon yet, since you can not use the weapon you are NOT learning extra from it.

    B. Yes - You ARE in the 'learning' range, and are earning a Skill Bonus for using that weapon.

    C. Not Anymore / Never - You are Ineligible or Beyond the range in which a learning bonus if offered, you are NOT learning any additional skills for that weapon.

    As we said earlier, just because you can use a weapon does not mean you are good with it yet. You are not using the weapon at it's full potential. This equates to more ped spent per kill. In order to kind of offset this, when you are using a weapon in it's SIB range, you will learn the skills you need to master it, at a faster rate.

    This brings us to

    4. Damage Interval - Well how good AM I with this weapon then?

    If you look at this, you will see it's actually a set of numbers.

    A. The range of damage you are CURRENTLY able to inflict with the weapon
    B. The MAX damage the weapon can do once you are fully trained on it.

    In the picture you will see that this weapon at it's BEST, when I am at my BEST with it, can do 18.5 to 37.0 damage per use. You can see this in the Damage Interval MAX which is the second set of numbers. There are other factors such as crit hits' etc but we won't go into them just yet.

    In the picture you can also see that MY ABILITY on this weapon at my CURRENT skill level is 10.7 to 37.0. I am NOT fully trained so am doing LESS damage than the weapon is capable of delivering. I am paying the PED in Decay / Ammo for 18.5 Damage Minimum but sometimes will only do 10.7 damage. I am losing Ped due to uneconomic use. I am paying Ped for a damage level I am not yet able to achieve.

    5. Other Hindrances - Because I am not fully trained in this weapon, not only is my Damage affected, but my Max Range, Ability to Hit, and Crit Hit ability can also be affected as well. As you can see by looking in our picture, my Max Range is not as far as it could be, my Hit Ability is VERY curtailed. THIS is important here!! On a scale of 0 to 10, I am only at 5.2. That's only 52 percent. This means I can MISS or Fail up to 48 percent of the time!! A Miss is just like an Evade, you wasted ped and decay but got ZERO damage out of it.

    As you can also see, my Ability to deal a critical hit is also severely curtailed. ALL because I am NOT fully trained in this weapon yet.

    -----

    Now that I have covered the basic details, I want to expand a little bit on a few of the items mentioned.

    Let's go back to SIB. For the most part, your SIB can last up to 5 levels past your minimum level on that weapon. In other words, if you need a Level 12 to use a weapon, from Level 12 to 17 you are earning your Skill Increase Bonus by using that weapon. THIS IS NOT A LAW!!! There ARE exceptions for some weapons.

    With this in mind, just because your SIB is over does NOT mean you have mastered your weapon!! REMEMBER THIS!!

    Some weapons you can master fairly quick, and yes after 5 levels, your SIB is over AND you are mastered. Others are NOT this way though.

    Let's look again at the example I have in the picture here. While you can not see it in the photo, I am at Level 20. That is WAY over the minimum level of 0.0 to use the weapon. By looking at my stats, you can see I am NOT getting a SIB anymore, have not been for many ranks now, and am way far away from mastering this thing as well. Im hovering in the 50 percent range in one area. Some weapons can take 30 to 40 levels above minimum to master or even more.

    When choosing a weapon to use, you need to be especially aware of this, how fast does it max out? Running 30 levels uneco because of a non maxxed weapon can become VERY costly over the long run. Yes you can have your swings and lucky streaks and all that but over the long haul, that's a lot of ped. It's also a lot of training lost as well. If you were to 'step up' your training using weapons that got progressively larger and offered SIB as you advanced along the path, you'd be learning at a faster rate than sticking with this uneco ammo hog.

    In closing, before choosing a weapon, especially if you are seeking an Unlimited one, do your homework, TALK to people, and get all the facts on the weapon you are considering before making the plunge. Another very good way to garner information is to go to the auction hall and pull up various different weapons of different training levels. The Piron series is a very good example. Look at them, the stats will always tell you YOUR abilities .vs. the weapons whether you own it or not. See how quickly these weapons max out and bounce that against your plans as you choose which ones to train and skill on.

    Hopefully I have not confused you too much here, and if so, please feel free to ask any questions on anything you may be unclear on concerning the weapons numbers. There are many folks in the game and on Cyrene who can give you accurate information and help you along.

    sluggo.
    San, Thanatos and OZtwo like this.
  2. Rusty Venture
    • Cyrene Pioneer

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    Careful asking in #cyrene chat though, you may get chewed out for asking a question by players such as sluggo who hate anyone who tries to help almost as much as they hate people who need it.

    Although I think he might be having a chance of heart as he is making his own tutorial now.
  3. sluggo
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    sluggo Active Member
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    Nobody ever got chewed out for simply asking a question in the chat channel. I have even seen plenty of times where folks from other planets would ask questions in our channel because they knew they could probably find an answer there. Anyone who would pay attention to what is actually going on in the channel, instead of preening themselves in the mirror would see that there are a LOT of folks, old timers in the game, who listen in on Cyrene chat as well, just don't talk..... until someone asks a question, they they will start giving answers.

    Questions will not get you chewed out on a chat channel. Personalities now on the other hand.......

    sluggo
  4. Rusty Venture
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    Rusty Venture Maze Runner
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    You chewed me out just now on the forums, terrible example of it not happening. :p
    You're grudge started when I made tutorials remember? "preening" as you call it, oh well at least glad to see you preening as well if that is what helping is. :cold_shower:
  5. Thanatos
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    Thanatos Fate Thanatos Themis
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    common guys, i bet u got alot of more interesting things to do than this. Let the wisest stop it first.

    Sluggo thx for the tutorial. There is alot of areas of EU that could get explained, U and Rusty make a gj.
    Kris | Cyrene and Rusty Venture like this.
  6. San
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    San Sandal San Tolk

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    It is just slightly more complicated. I have the very same weapon btw, love it for its speed! The poor man's VAT 100 Mentor Ed. For me the hit/crit ability figures are currently at 5.9/5.1. And I use a beastie on it which is a wee 0.5 dmg too strong, but gives more eco than a lower one. The combo is still way from top efficient, but good enough for some fun and as backup when I'm tired of having to go shopping yet again. Okay, I digress. What I meant to say is, I don't miss 100-59=41% of the time, only by that amount more than I would with a maxed weapon. Or thereabout, not sure if that statement is mathematically accurate, but it's definitely closer to the experience. The exact formulas must be somewhere on PCF or Entropedia, seen them a while ago but would have to do some digging to find them again. Thank you for your effort anyway.
    sluggo likes this.
  7. Rusty Venture
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    Hit rate does not work like that. It is confirmed with zero hit rate you hit 80% of the time. With 10/10 you hit 90% of the time. with 5/10 you hit 85% of the time. the X/10 is your percent to hit in the 10% hit range of skill, the rest is always miss's.

    You can test this yourself, if you get the upper 10% miss (even with a 10/10 gun or not) it says evade, if your miss is due to the 0/10 or 5/10 you get a miss. That is what miss and evade means. 10% chance of the mob evading, 0-10% chance of missing due to skill, and 80% guaranteed hit.
  8. sluggo
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    sluggo Active Member
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    San, yes it is a bit more complex, and I bet there are other factors that we don't even know about in the whole big picture. My intent was more towards explaining what each category meant, not the precise math, since I honestly don't know all of it, none of us does I bet. In other words, if you are not maxxed out, it WILL cost you a bit more, and different weapons will max at different rates. Then again, even with a maxxed weapon, it may take you tens of thousands of ped or more cycled to actually 'see' the returns some advertise.

    I would also theorize that MA also manips the daily 'feed rate' based on many factors as well. During events loot on non event stuff I find to be rather shitty most the times. Right before a VU comes out it's a bad ped suck, then a few days after the VU they put it back to 'normal' and pretend it's a reward for the buggy VU :D While this is loot, I find the same thing with my ammo burn. Let's say you can do from 10 to 20 damage per shot. Some days you are hitting the lower end a lot, other days the higher end more, and some days it's like every other shot is an evade. Some will argue it's just me or 'my personal pool' which itself is yet another argument, but when most the people on the planet say, yes mining sucks today, I think we can rule out personal pools to some extent. With all this said, one could also theorize that you will see the projected 'average' only if one were to game daily, through the ups and downs. One who comes on infrequently could in essence hit the crap days and be much lower on overall loot. In this case, in that persons eyes, ALL of our theories are just BS because he's not seeing any of it materialize for him. Just one of those things.

    sluggo

    Edit: After reading this again, I realize I jumped around a bit and perhaps got a bit ahead of myself in a few places. Loot, Ammo Burn (to include mining drops as well since you pay for them like ammo) all can be manipulated to control your overall 'take'. Some days your weapon misses far more than the 10 or 20 percent proposed here, and that damage is NOT offset by the rare crit hit. Instead of robbing you on shitty loot, they just make you burn more ammo to get it, in the end, same result, they get more of your ped, either through low loot returns or more ammo burn.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2015

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