Wanted: really useful (C) stuff (plus critique of the old shirts)

[jaywalker]

When the new Cyrene textures came out, I was hopeful of seeing some new customisable items to go with them. But no. Looks like all we have -still- is the limited shirts!

Why (C, L) clothing is a bad idea

Customising can be a very expensive business. Whilst people will pay the earth for clothing in EU, they don't generally want to pay much mu for clothing that is going to decay every time they change it, and that can't ever be repaired. That is the important thing. The 2 pec decay is neglible, but people are conscious that their favourite shirt is slowly and inexorably vanishing whenever they change it, and therefore don't want to change it.

This is bad for the economy! Those who do buy (L) clothing can be seen wearing the exact same outfit week after week, month after month. They might like to try some new outfits, but they don't want to lose the item they have, so they don't!

As a shop manager, I don't usually stock the limited (L) clothing ; not only because it doesn't sell very well, but I can't allow people to try these items on, as I do with the UL stuff. The 2pec decay that entails , whilst not really significant to me, would destroy the item's saleabilty. Now , very often people will try out a very wide range range of garments before deciding what works best with their outfit. That is part of the fun! The urepairability of the (L) clothing items also stops people doing this, of course!

OK, the above shows why (L) clothing in itself is a very bad idea, even when it's non-c. You make that clothing customisable and the same observtions apply, tenfold. For low TT items items such as these shirts, a nice custom job could very easily multiply the cost of the shirt by 10, or even 100! Will it add that much to the value of the shirt? Not remotely You're not just up against decay (which becomes a lot more significant, now you've put that pricy paint and texture on) you're also up against auction graphs, which make no distinction between customised and uncistomised items. According to those graphs, the value of your shirt is still around 140% or 7 PED, nevermind how much you spend making it pretty. This is a problem with ALL clothing of course, but if we go to the other end of the spectrum : people are much more willing to apply expensive textures to their 209 PED TT repairable Cognac Coat. And that custom job will in fact add value, so far as the more experienced/discerning players are concerned.

To be really marketable, customised clothing, ideally needs to be UL and high TT (so that the customising cost represents a lower fraction of the total cost of the item), but the UL factor is by far the most significant, here

Can the (C) shirts be changed to UL? or UL version brought out?

I should also note that they are still somewhat bugged. ie, they look faded when decayed. (L) items should not fade or otherwise lose utility when decayed. That makes them next-to-useless.

I also note that the (F) version is wayyyy bugged, but I do know that Chief (and some others) like it this way . lol. My own feeling is that whilst cropped shirts might be nice, and that ragged look is very attractive, these looks should be intoduced as seperate, new items! IT's a bugbear of mine that female avas in EU are -increasingly- denied proper (F) versions of the (M) stuff, but rather forced to wear tight-fitting and/or revealing things that bear little or no relation to the(M) vesrsion of "the same" (huh?). They will all come pre-coloured in pink, next!

Now I am not against tight fitting or revealing clothes, but I feel that we definitely ought to have an option! As an RL female (who does most of my shopping in the men's department- cos i like my clothing loose-fitting, practical, comfortable, and hardwearing) I really resent being forced to dress as some kind of male fantasy figure in-game lol. Why can't I wear the same kind of things I wear IRL? (inasmuch as some of they actually do exist in-game)

Anyway would definitely like to see some UL customisable clothing coming out. And , if well-designed, I'm sure it will spark a lot of interest throughout EU. There are people out there who are always looking for something new to wear; and the range of options is not all that great.

I'll start a separate thread for clothing suggestions. My next post on this thread will concern other possible (C) items such as armour, vehicles, furnishings, as (in some measure) differnt observations apply to these.

(Going to get myself some food now )

jay

Back from lunch. Before I get on with the next topic, I'd just like to show what can be done with this lovely design. Yep I succumbed to temptation and customised a few anyway. Such a pity it's not UL!

These are not high priced textures, in thefollowing pics. They range from cheap to midlevel pricewise. I also took advantage of a sharp recent drop in the texture prices; and in the colour one I skimped on the paints (which might have meant that i had to re-do it, but it turned out OK). This meant that the priciest one cost about 40 PED to customise(would normally cost quite a bit more) raising the total cost of the shirt to around 47 PED or 940%

You can also see previews of designs that could be made with Cyrene textures on this thread (post 3). I really, really want to do those! but it would cost way too much.

jay

 

[jaywalker]

Time for further notes:

Vehicles
For whatever reason, people are much more willing to customise (L) vehicles than (L) clothing (reasons would include lack of choice. UL vehicles are extremely rare and expensive. There's also the fact that, unlike clothing, you don't decay your (L) vehicle just be jumping in and out of it. If fact, it can last forever if you stay clear of PvP, because all other damage is normally fully repairable, in spite of the (L))

Obviously a nicely customised vehicle is a status symbol, as is possession of the latest state-of-the art version of the vehicle. So it really doesn't matter much if the current Dragonflies and Spears are non-C. If the new improved versions that come out next are (C) then that's all the more incentive for people to upgrade!

Armour
Do bring out a customisable armour or several! But for heaven's sake don't make them (L). Customised (L) armour is no use for armour (it decays way too fast) and is therefore only good for a fashion accessory. ( and even then, somebody could always screw your good looks with a mob train *chuckle*)

Seriously. NI had a roaring success with the customisable, UL, noob-level Hoplite armour; and RT found favour with the UL Jarhead (C) (mid-level), but nobody bothers to customise the (L) version of the same. There's not much else(nothing else noteworthy, really), There's room for a lot more different (C) designs at various levels.

Also, if you look at my armour customising thread, you can maybe avoid some of the design pitfalls which make these armours (especially Hoplite) difficult to work with.

Furniture, upholstery, etc

People very much like to customise their own furniture, curtains etc. ofc. but it's a very small market, limited to those who own estates; and they usually do it just once (wheras they'll change clothes and vehicles all the time)

I'd personally like to see a lot more different customisable carpet designs (there are only two at present!), But wherther they would sell...? I dunno.

With furnishings and containers, (L) doesn't matteer so much, because MA never yet intoduced decay on these things (except 1 pec decay when you bleach) ...but you never know if they might, in the future, so I think most people would prefer UL (especially on expensive items) to be on the safe side. As it is, (L) could be a bit of an advantage though, because your PED return from customising is used to repair an UL item. If it's just as functional and just as good-looking at low TT (as many items are, and (L) ones really should be) that's a bit of a waste.

Containers
There's always a call for containers, due to item limits in caried inventory and storage. Some beautiful non-C designs have been brought out (eg Arkardian pottery) but really the most useful containers are customisable because there's no way to label them, so people use colour coding instead.
For this purpuse, I think it's best for the container to have fairly low maximum TT, or there's an awful lot of PED blown on the custom job.

Actually, existing containers mostly do leave a lot to be desired. So I think I'll make a whole new thread about containers (when I've time), in the hope that Cyrene can fill in the gaps for us!


jay

 

[Master Chief]

but I do know that Chief (and some others) like it this way

Whats Wrong With that!? Infact my refinement idea was more prude then the one came out you can ask Kris. *Remember Kris you said any Bad ideas to blame you; LOL JK * But it is also bugged atm and makes any (F) wearing it look like an amazon getting back from a fight.

But jaywalker I don't think the team add that shirt in (L) for people to take it up as a style, I think its more a cheap cost effective cheap way to complete missions as the other clothes require (Basic Target Chip). *Oh and shoot me if Kris decides to add basic Target Chip to that blueprint*


- The Chief

 

[Kitten]

agree down with (L) clothing * pitchfork *

and why is a targeting chip for a gun used in clothes weeeird * tosses bp's into storage *

 

[Master Chief]

agree down with (L) clothing * pitchfork *

and why is a targeting chip for a gun used in clothes weeeird * tosses bp's into storage *

I asked Kris about this, he Didn't have a straight answer but i think maybe its the founding years of an iron man suit?

 

[Kitten]

oh and make there a (C) version of the vehicles that would AWESOME!!!!!

 

[jaywalker]

OK I've finally got around to filling in post #2. and after a bit of discussion in my other thread (starting 2nd post down) decided it was probably OK to post an appropriate link.

That completes my projected commentary. (carefully stated, you note? I think my jocular "that's yer lot" before might have been taken a little bit over-literally lol. Am always liable to witter on further, in the light of feedback )

jay

 

[jaywalker]

Woew , sneaky.

It didn't say so on the print, but the Paradigm series clothes turn out to be (C) . We found that out today when Chief and Mr X finally managed to craft some of them.

The shoes, sadly are bugged (will put in a bug reprt when I wake up. Dead tired now)

Gratz to the discoverers!

Here are some previews of Paradim Series8 Shirt, textured:

View attachment 1803

 

[Kris | Cyrene]

Hey Jay!

When the new Cyrene textures came out, I was hopeful of seeing some new customisable items to go with them. But no. Looks like all we have -still- is the limited shirts!

Why (C, L) clothing is a bad idea

Customising can be a very expensive business. Whilst people will pay the earth for clothing in EU, they don't generally want to pay much mu for clothing that is going to decay every time they change it, and that can't ever be repaired. That is the important thing. The 2 pec decay is neglible, but people are conscious that their favourite shirt is slowly and inexorably vanishing whenever they change it, and therefore don't want to change it.

This is bad for the economy! Those who do buy (L) clothing can be seen wearing the exact same outfit week after week, month after month. They might like to try some new outfits, but they don't want to lose the item they have, so they don't!

As a shop manager, I don't usually stock the limited (L) clothing ; not only because it doesn't sell very well, but I can't allow people to try these items on, as I do with the UL stuff. The 2pec decay that entails , whilst not really significant to me, would destroy the item's saleabilty. Now , very often people will try out a very wide range range of garments before deciding what works best with their outfit. That is part of the fun! The urepairability of the (L) clothing items also stops people doing this, of course!

OK, the above shows why (L) clothing in itself is a very bad idea, even when it's non-c. You make that clothing customisable and the same observtions apply, tenfold. For low TT items items such as these shirts, a nice custom job could very easily multiply the cost of the shirt by 10, or even 100! Will it add that much to the value of the shirt? Not remotely You're not just up against decay (which becomes a lot more significant, now you've put that pricy paint and texture on) you're also up against auction graphs, which make no distinction between customised and uncistomised items. According to those graphs, the value of your shirt is still around 140% or 7 PED, nevermind how much you spend making it pretty. This is a problem with ALL clothing of course, but if we go to the other end of the spectrum : people are much more willing to apply expensive textures to their 209 PED TT repairable Cognac Coat. And that custom job will in fact add value, so far as the more experienced/discerning players are concerned.

To be really marketable, customised clothing, ideally needs to be UL and high TT (so that the customising cost represents a lower fraction of the total cost of the item), but the UL factor is by far the most significant, here

Can the (C) shirts be changed to UL? or UL version brought out?

So this was sort of resolved with this VU and new UL clothing correct?

I should also note that they are still somewhat bugged. ie, they look faded when decayed. (L) items should not fade or otherwise lose utility when decayed. That makes them next-to-useless.

I also note that the (F) version is wayyyy bugged, but I do know that Chief (and some others) like it this way . lol. My own feeling is that whilst cropped shirts might be nice, and that ragged look is very attractive, these looks should be intoduced as seperate, new items! IT's a bugbear of mine that female avas in EU are -increasingly- denied proper (F) versions of the (M) stuff, but rather forced to wear tight-fitting and/or revealing things that bear little or no relation to the(M) vesrsion of "the same" (huh?). They will all come pre-coloured in pink, next!

Now I am not against tight fitting or revealing clothes, but I feel that we definitely ought to have an option! As an RL female (who does most of my shopping in the men's department- cos i like my clothing loose-fitting, practical, comfortable, and hardwearing) I really resent being forced to dress as some kind of male fantasy figure in-game lol. Why can't I wear the same kind of things I wear IRL? (inasmuch as some of they actually do exist in-game)

KHAI brought this up in another thread, and we will defintely be looking into some more "normal" clothing options in the future.

Vehicles
For whatever reason, people are much more willing to customise (L) vehicles than (L) clothing (reasons would include lack of choice. UL vehicles are extremely rare and expensive. There's also the fact that, unlike clothing, you don't decay your (L) vehicle just be jumping in and out of it. If fact, it can last forever if you stay clear of PvP, because all other damage is normally fully repairable, in spite of the (L))

Obviously a nicely customised vehicle is a status symbol, as is possession of the latest state-of-the art version of the vehicle. So it really doesn't matter much if the current Dragonflies and Spears are non-C. If the new improved versions that come out next are (C) then that's all the more incentive for people to upgrade!

I couldn't agree with this more and it is definitely in the works.

Armour
Do bring out a customisable armour or several! But for heaven's sake don't make them (L). Customised (L) armour is no use for armour (it decays way too fast) and is therefore only good for a fashion accessory. ( and even then, somebody could always screw your good looks with a mob train *chuckle*)

Seriously. NI had a roaring success with the customisable, UL, noob-level Hoplite armour; and RT found favour with the UL Jarhead (C) (mid-level), but nobody bothers to customise the (L) version of the same. There's not much else(nothing else noteworthy, really), There's room for a lot more different (C) designs at various levels.

Also, if you look at my armour customising thread, you can maybe avoid some of the design pitfalls which make these armours (especially Hoplite) difficult to work with.

This is on the list, I don't know what armor is coming for the next VU so for now I'll still say it's up in the air but this post does not fall on deaf ears.

Furniture, upholstery, etc

People very much like to customise their own furniture, curtains etc. ofc. but it's a very small market, limited to those who own estates; and they usually do it just once (wheras they'll change clothes and vehicles all the time)

I'd personally like to see a lot more different customisable carpet designs (there are only two at present!), But wherther they would sell...? I dunno.

With furnishings and containers, (L) doesn't matteer so much, because MA never yet intoduced decay on these things (except 1 pec decay when you bleach) ...but you never know if they might, in the future, so I think most people would prefer UL (especially on expensive items) to be on the safe side. As it is, (L) could be a bit of an advantage though, because your PED return from customising is used to repair an UL item. If it's just as functional and just as good-looking at low TT (as many items are, and (L) ones really should be) that's a bit of a waste.

Containers
There's always a call for containers, due to item limits in caried inventory and storage. Some beautiful non-C designs have been brought out (eg Arkardian pottery) but really the most useful containers are customisable because there's no way to label them, so people use colour coding instead.
For this purpuse, I think it's best for the container to have fairly low maximum TT, or there's an awful lot of PED blown on the custom job.

I think that furniture and containers will probably come the same time that we get available apartments on Cyrene as well.

Thanks for all the info Jay!

Cheers,
Kris