Where is The Economy?

[Andreso]

Hi

I came to this planet with Spirit MK1(L) gun which was looted on calypso, with Dante amp which was crafted on calypso, t15(L) which was also crafted on calypso, and some armor also from calypso.
So i went for hunt and looted some materials that crafter can use for producing guns, faps, armors, but why he would do that if everyone bring their staff from others planets?
Then again if he dont have custmers for his crafted things, he dont buy my loot either
So the question is where is the economy in here?


PS. sorry for my bad english

 

[non]

most people i know are waiting on the next vu to do any heavy lifting.

waiting on ore and enmat balancing.
waiting on loot drops
hoping for new bps
ect...
ect...
.

but i dont really know...

 

[Andreso]

But still if i will come here with my unlimited items and by hunting i will produce materials, from which crafter will make some products, i will not buy them becouse i have my unlimited iteams, so where is economy in that?

My point is i cant see how economy can work in this game when ppl with unlimited items (like me) produce materials but they dont use them by themself

 

[non]

not every one can afford, find, or want to use ul items.

ul items come from some where. either crafted by a l or ul bp or looted by a crafted or looted ul or l weapon that was crafted by a ul or l bp or looted from a mob hunted with a ul or l weapon that was crafted by a ul or l bp or looted by a crafted or looted by a ul or l weapon that was crafted by a bp that was looted from a l or ul bp or looted from a mob killed with a l or ul weapon that was crafted or looted.

wait i am confused...

unless you talking tt stuff.

 

[Kenny]

Well Economy is not for everyone imo...

The current state seems like this:
Standard low end BPs should be easy to click, but so far the imperium TT BPs are kinda not worth it since some materials are extremely rare and not worth the click for an (L) low end gun for example.
The reward BPs from hunting missions or even from exploring missions are nice and well worth the effort, though those that can be clicked easy and smooth looking at the materials needed, dont have a good resell-value on the items (thats logic and nothing special) while those BPs that are hard to click will cost a fortune in rare mats resulting in nice rare items like vehicles or even UL gear.

Economy is kinda working but within a small circle of established individuals...The rest has to get the rare stuff the hard way, meaning mining hunting and crafting with big PEDs and a lot o´luck OR pay up insane MU on auction.

In the end no one ever said that being a pioneer would be easy, but as time passes the balancing will become more and more working towards an economy i think.

Maybe try reaching your personal goals at Cyrene in a group rather more than on your own, might be more fun and cuts the cost most likely

 

[WangXiang]

Economy is a concept at this stage. Too far away imo.

Planet Cyrene should just find ways to make crafting attractive. I am a crafter and I must say I am not really motivated to craft on Planet Cyrene.

 

[Master Chief]

Economy is a concept at this stage. Too far away imo.

Planet Cyrene should just find ways to make crafting attractive. I am a crafter and I must say I am not really motivated to craft on Planet Cyrene.

As a crafter to crafter, your most likely crafting the wrong things, depends on your type of crafting. for Vehicles craft dragonflys and spears. They have decent steady markup.

 

[WangXiang]

As a crafter to crafter, your most likely crafting the wrong things, depends on your type of crafting. for Vehicles craft dragonflys and spears. They have decent steady markup.

Masterchief, it seems we don't play the same game. I am speaking of "attractiveness", you are speaking of "markup".

I am here to play a game. I am not here to make money.

 

[Master Chief]

I am here to play a game. I am not here to make money.

I can reassure you not only am i playing both sides of the field on this one, But I've discovered alot of craftable items and you don't see them on auction I lose more then i make so Im sure that, Because I play as hobby for fun. Not try to make all the peds i can but when i do its merely a bonus.

 

[Andreso]

Like Master said here he can craft many things but he dont do that becouse he lose lots of peds on doing it.
Why he losing peds on it?, becouse he has to pay MU for materials from which he will craft iteams, but he cannot sell finish item with MU(wich will recover the lost MU) becouse there are better alternatives from other/older planet partners.

So how the new planet partner who start from scratch can compere with iteams from older PP, in my opininion they can not.
When you look for stats of all iteams from Cyrene, there are better alternatves from others planets for most of them, which make most of the iteams from Cyrene TT food.

How that can be changed?

 

[Master Chief]

Like Master said here he can craft many things but he dont do that becouse he lose lots of peds on doing it.
Why he losing peds on it?, becouse he has to pay MU for materials from which he will craft iteams, but he cannot sell finish item with MU(wich will recover the lost MU) becouse there are better alternatives from other/older planet partners.

So how the new planet partner who start from scratch can compere with iteams from older PP, in my opininion they can not.
When you look for stats of all iteams from Cyrene, there are better alternatves from others planets for most of them, which make most of the iteams from Cyrene TT food.

How that can be changed?

How can it be changed? Simple with time; Cyrene dev team is carefully watching and will hopefully start adjusting things based on comparable items. Alot of things that are craftable now are not cheap thats only because they are still working on figuring out mining, drops, etc. You cant just automatically think when a planet comes out it should have 100% steady working economy. All i can say is if your going to be on Cyrene; Like Kenny said find/start your own small little circle and start working together. For now thats the only way to play on cyrene unless you look at this as a vacation to burn peds.

 

[Andreso]

Master my point is not only Cyrene, but the whole planet partner ship. Now there is only 5 planets and the hole idea of Entropia Universe is to have them more and more. How the new plantet can comere wiht older ones? Arkadia doing the best from all of them and it took them lots of time to be where they are now, how long it will take for Cyrene to stand on their feets? How the next planet partner do better the the previous ones.

My point is that the economy in this game is not working properlly in my opinnion.

Ususally it suppost to be like that:
- Hunter gets matterials by killing mobs and he sell them to crafter
- Crafter make guns, armors, faps
- the same hunter from beginning buys guns,armors, faps from crafter that he could hunt mobs ( and here economy make circle)

But right now its quite often its like this:
-Hunter (who is using UL staff) is killing mobs and getting matterials for crafter
- Crafter makes guns, armors,faps
- the same hunter from beginning dont buys anything from crafter becouse he has UL staff( and at this point there is no economy)

So there is lots of hunters out there who just produce materials by hunting but in the same time they not using them

PS. my post about economy its not only about Cyrene economy but about economy in all EU

 

[jetsina]

Yes Andreso, in fact even if you look at limited guns, then hunters get far more materials returned than the decay of the weapon because of the ammo shot. It seems to me that only limited melee weapons can actually 'use up' mats overall.
On the crafting side, if there are mats that make other mats needed for item bps, then some materials are being eaten up due to the 90% returns, but I don't think it is balanced. And for mining, the probes come from the tt machine - another big generator of materials which build up. Only the amps work to reduce the stacks being built up overall by being crafted items.

Now there is also other stuff being made, ok, but the universe needs to grow with new players wanting these things to be made. At the moment Cyrene is being exported to I believe (and my stacks are growing using imported peds). I also don't know how the new planets hope to economically fit in with the existing planets. The limits to growth are especially hard if you are not even growing!

 

[Kenny]

Yes Growth

Its kinda like in the real world...the whole market is based on steady development and growth...specially the low MU stuff that drops everywhere is crafted for dropping new BPs not the items comin out of it.

So i read on other forums that all that new content is too much and i would agree on it in some way BUT without more new stuff most of everything you can loot or craft in this game would be considered TT in the end.

Cyrene for example imports shitloads of universal stuff going to the slotmachine for dropping more BPs yet not in the book or for reselling.
Calypso imports basicly gear and items from the whole universe and with the cheap safe warprides even native materials of other planets are actually exported to caly together with BPs and all you need for a click - just because the playerbase and crafters are there.

I see a point in that debate about hunters that use UL stuff and never need to buy new gear again, however they cut their own profit doing that since the MU on the materials they gather soon hits TT value if there is no use to craft it away (as said above the low MU close to TT can be used to drop new content and generate skills - so it just goes to another cycle). Its a phenomenon that people nowadays tend to sell stuff wich is a total loss at not reasonable prices and destroying whole production chains by undercutting the price too hard - on most planets whenever i did find something to click with reasonable profit margin, some jerks screwed my sells after a week usually.

Its not the game to blame or the developers or planetpartners imo...its the cheap-asses and wannabe resellers lowering prices to their benefit or due to lack of understanding how much it hurts the economy AND the game when they offer stuff way below MU even if they loose PED in those deals actually.

Saying all that basicly means: Your right there is no real economy for everyone...but you can adapt to the parts of the game that are not covered by many people and try to make the best out of it. Or do what most people do: Hunt atrox on caly for TT and hope your lucky

wow that post went longer than intended

Edit: Oh yeah i forgot the fun part...
Its not fun for me when i loose 10% at least no matter what i do and end up TTing everything after hunting mining and crafting a useless item

But sure its fun when i have a goal to get something i really want and succeed in the whole process getting it.

 

[Andreso]

in fact even if you look at limited guns, then hunters get far more materials returned than the decay of the weapon because of the ammo shot

Then mayby ammo should be crafted not bought in TT

I see a point in that debate about hunters that use UL stuff and never need to buy new gear again, however they cut their own profit doing that since the MU on the materials they gather soon hits TT value if there is no use to craft it away

Actually when you look on some popular stackable materials from hunting thats what happening right now. evrything go in direction of TT, with more players it will go just faster in that direction i think.

but you can adapt to the parts of the game that are not covered by many people and try to make the best out of it

Yes i can, but if the today concept of economy its not working, mayby it should be changed?

 

[Kenny]

Yeah...i agree...it would be totally reasonable imo to remove all items from TT now...leave ammo in there maybe, but remove all the rest what decays...on top of that remove readymade items from mob drops, so only materials or maybe unique items drop.

the game is established...no need for TT blueprints guns faps armor etc...specially not when all those items can be crafted (Oo)

Also its kind of difficult to look at the ability to trade items to the system, forcing to trade stuff to other players might be a pain in the A from the start, but will sure help the balancing issues in the long term...

Think about a world where only materials drop and each and everything has to be crafted to an item or another component or whatever...think about a world where you can salvage parts of the materials from items that you dont need anymore and no one else around wants...think about a lower grinding rate because people have to think twice what they wanna do...think about crowded marketplaces on every planet with people in real need to buy and sell.

Sounds tough, is tough but would make most professions more interesting again...shit yeah bring ammo-crafters on top what the hell

It would be a whole new game i definately would like to see that happen...doubt it will happen in this game though, the status quo is hard to change unfortunately.

Your defiantely right, the market is screwed up already in many aspects and i blame it on the com not the dev...well maybe both since the dev made it possible for the com to screw it up

 

[Lio Mori]

Think about a world where only materials drop and each and everything has to be crafted to an item or another component or whatever...think about a world where you can salvage parts of the materials from items that you dont need anymore and no one else around wants...think about a lower grinding rate because people have to think twice what they wanna do...think about crowded marketplaces on every planet with people in real need to buy and sell.

♫ - You, you may say​

I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one​

I hope some day you'll join us​

And the world will live as one - ♪​

​

Sorry for the off topic

 

[Andreso]

It would be a whole new game i definately would like to see that happen...doubt it will happen in this game though, the status quo is hard to change unfortunately.

You are right it would be hard to change whole world. All the people who owns UL staff would kill dev for changing it.

But i think there is actually solutinon which is already in game and its called Ancient Greece. When you go there you can not use all the iteam from rest of world, which allow you to make sepperate economy from beginning.
I think they failed becouse of bad dev team or who ever was in charge of that planet, but the idea was good.

Making such seperate economy benefits dev team becouse they dont have to worry about rest of PP-s, so each time they make any item it can be used only on that area, so MA dont have to check if it interfere with other planet, and opens more possibilities.

I think sepereta economy from rest of universe would make negotiations between PP-s and MA much easer and faster, each drop rate of items could be more controled by PP, then as it is now MA.

 

[Master Chief]

You are right it would be hard to change whole world. All the people who owns UL staff would kill dev for changing it.

But i think there is actually solutinon which is already in game and its called Ancient Greece. When you go there you can not use all the iteam from rest of world, which allow you to make sepperate economy from beginning.
I think they failed becouse of bad dev team or who ever was in charge of that planet, but the idea was good.

Making such seperate economy benefits dev team becouse they dont have to worry about rest of PP-s, so each time they make any item it can be used only on that area, so MA dont have to check if it interfere with other planet, and opens more possibilities.

I think sepereta economy from rest of universe would make negotiations between PP-s and MA much easer and faster, each drop rate of items could be more controled by PP, then as it is now MA.

that could be a problem for alot of people who are limited on funds and would restrict participants to one planet instead free roam them all as you would have to keep tieing your peds to PP specific gear and keep rebuying it for each planet. Other areas like NI were also RT: Artic which got nuked and wiped out for good, and Currently Cyrene: The Hub.

 

[Andreso]

Master you are right about tieing peds to specific PP, but i still think if that would be done right way it would be succesfull. NI and RT are very long in this universe but they problem is lack of main items( for hunting, mining and crafting) thats why ancient greace and artic wasnt so good, but if all things that are needed for crafting main items are in loot pool from begginning there is difrent story.

People who are limited on founds would have to find their home and stick to it, besides i dont say every PP-s should do it. But i would like to se some place like Ancient Greece but with econome done properlly. Its a challenge for PP but i think it would do better then participating in current system.

On the end you cannot compere Cyrene:The Hub to this, becouse its concentrated on PVP. Its very narrow request of current population. Propoblly the main profit for PP-s can be maid from hunters, crafters, miners. The rest is just something extra that will make PP diffrent from rest of universe.