Free Speech on Loot Theories #cyrene chat banned - wheres the fun ?

[Agis]

Hi just letting you know i was banned from the #cyrene chat today (cannot name names due to forum rules and in respect to the Cyrene Administrators)

Seems chatting about experimenting different experiences and loot theories, is not allowed on the ingame chat channel #cyrene , I was under the impression it was
a public channel , but seems its not.

I dont see the point when we choose how we spend our money (Our Own Money) ingame by experimenting different methods, Ive been experimenting alot since 2008, I started playing in 2005. Seems several people who seem that experimenting in a Real Cash Economy with Loot Theories in regards economic setups compared to non economic setups etc.. What is right and what is not ?

Im a Veteran player of almost 10 years, i achieved Level 106 earlier this month, and I got there by experimenting all different kind of things, alot of my loot experiences have come from millions of peds turnover experimenting different setups and playability etc.

Most of my loot theories obviously have people that do not agree with my experiments and sometimes met with harmless counterpunches (which is expected knowing that Loot Mechanics in Entropia has never been proven). It started off as constructive conversation, but soon (For the first time ever) met with hostile responses I have never seen in any of my conversations in society on chat or other forums in the history (almost 10 years in playing), yes i admit there are always people that recommend economic playing, but that does not dismiss the fact there are alot of people that play for fun by experimenting, with RCE there are many different types of gameplay , and the Planet Cyrene community should be open to all perspectives (non depositor, light depositer, medium depositor or heavy) thats how people learn and also
there are a lot of people that like to experiment on things (its your own money do what you like)

Real Cash Economy is freedom to do what you like whatever your budget, everyone sees loot and economic , non economic, personal loot pool, mob loot pool etc. etc. Even though MIndark has said in one of there Developers Notes about economic hunting and no personal lootpool , but there of course are those skeptics that refuse to believe what Mindark say sometimes , and you have the right to believe or not believe based on your experiences and there proven track record

Do you believe in censoring ingame chat channels, or do you believe to express your opinion and hold firm on your beliefs ..

please keep comments civil.. I do not want this thread locked because of constant flaming or hostile responses etc.. Its a friendly and open discussion looking at all different type of Cyrene Players and there playing ways (whatever they may be)

cheers

Agis

 

[Haruto Rat]

I witnessed only part of that 'discussion', and there were two problems with it:

• heavy volume bordering on spam, and
• it had virtually nothing to do with specifically Cyrene

Faced with a choice of either:

• adding most participants to my ignore list, or
• getting out myself,

I decided to log off and go fetch some red wine

I also believe you should be thankful for being silenced in this case, as it saved you from getting on lots of ignore lists, which would have negatively impacted your future business.

As for freedom of speech, it doesn't involve a right to captive audience. Your freedom to create [#loottheories] and preach to those who really want to listen isn't being impaired in any way.

 

[OZtwo]

Looking back at the logs I can see maybe why they wouldn't want this 'exploit' to be known if it is true or not. But what I found interesting is that you did get banned so you may have hit the nail on the head here. It was always a 'hmm' question I had about the subject. Never will use it or try it..but one item you may want to remember is that if this was to work then loot returns should be way much better on shared loot events with all the afk shooter? LOL..of course I guess we can't debate about it here or we just may get banned.

But I do understand why they may have banned you. They really don't need people to know about stuff like this or as you know it would get way out of control.

 

[Agis]

Looking back at the logs I can see maybe why they wouldn't want this 'exploit' to be known if it is true or not. But what I found interesting is that you did get banned so you may have hit the nail on the head here. It was always a 'hmm' question I had about the subject. Never will use it or try it..but one item you may want to remember is that if this was to work then loot returns should be way much better on shared loot events with all the afk shooter? LOL..of course I guess we can't debate about it here or we just may get banned.

But I do understand why they may have banned you. They really don't need people to know about stuff like this or as you know it would get way out of control.

Well the point was some people wanted to know more information, and some people wanted to dismiss it completely so its a catch 22 , obviously whoever owns the chat channel (thought it was public at first) thought the later and banned me, and its not an 'exploit' its just years and years of study and experimentation. And I never said there is no risk and it was true or not as all theories are what they are 'theories' some people take it as gospel (result of hostile responses)

(Haurato Rat) We were talking about using the Archon Sword on Cyrene on non regen mobs at first before the loot theories discussion started.

I hold to my principles always , so do others.. Catch 22 as i said

cheers

 

[kjellings]

 

[OZtwo]

Well the point was some people wanted to know more information, and some people wanted to dismiss it completely so its a catch 22 , obviously whoever owns the chat channel (thought it was public at first) thought the later and banned me, and its not an 'exploit' its just years and years of study and experimentation. And I never said there is no risk and it was true or not as all theories are what they are 'theories' some people take it as gospel (result of hostile responses)

(Haurato Rat) We were talking about using the Archon Sword on Cyrene on non regen mobs at first before the loot theories discussion started.

I hold to my principles always , so do others.. Catch 22 as i said

cheers

Yes I just read the last of it but from what I got I didn't see any reason to be banned. I mean we all have theories about the game and is what makes this game so much fun. People did push you to try and get the needed steps and you simple told them no as many others would do..and again doing this isn't worth a ban. My guess is that who ever banned you wanted the exploit you didn't give so well you did get ban for it.

But also you need to understand as well that the state of Cyrene isn't all that good with so many bugs and well they just may not want it to get out about them due to the fact they would have a big mess on their hands so they just simply wanted to ban you to not advertise the issues for those who do search for any and all exploits in the game.

 

[Thanatos]

Hi just letting you know i was banned from the #cyrene chat today (cannot name names due to forum rules and in respect to the Cyrene Administrators)

Seems chatting about experimenting different experiences and loot theories, is not allowed on the ingame chat channel #cyrene , I was under the impression it was
a public channel , but seems its not.

I dont see the point when we choose how we spend our money (Our Own Money) ingame by experimenting different methods, Ive been experimenting alot since 2008, I started playing in 2005. Seems several people who seem that experimenting in a Real Cash Economy with Loot Theories in regards economic setups compared to non economic setups etc.. What is right and what is not ?

Im a Veteran player of almost 10 years, i achieved Level 106 earlier this month, and I got there by experimenting all different kind of things, alot of my loot experiences have come from millions of peds turnover experimenting different setups and playability etc.

Most of my loot theories obviously have people that do not agree with my experiments and sometimes met with harmless counterpunches (which is expected knowing that Loot Mechanics in Entropia has never been proven). It started off as constructive conversation, but soon (For the first time ever) met with hostile responses I have never seen in any of my conversations in society on chat or other forums in the history (almost 10 years in playing), yes i admit there are always people that recommend economic playing, but that does not dismiss the fact there are alot of people that play for fun by experimenting, with RCE there are many different types of gameplay , and the Planet Cyrene community should be open to all perspectives (non depositor, light depositer, medium depositor or heavy) thats how people learn and also
there are a lot of people that like to experiment on things (its your own money do what you like)

Real Cash Economy is freedom to do what you like whatever your budget, everyone sees loot and economic , non economic, personal loot pool, mob loot pool etc. etc. Even though MIndark has said in one of there Developers Notes about economic hunting and no personal lootpool , but there of course are those skeptics that refuse to believe what Mindark say sometimes , and you have the right to believe or not believe based on your experiences and there proven track record

Do you believe in censoring ingame chat channels, or do you believe to express your opinion and hold firm on your beliefs ..

please keep comments civil.. I do not want this thread locked because of constant flaming or hostile responses etc.. Its a friendly and open discussion looking at all different type of Cyrene Players and there playing ways (whatever they may be)

cheers

Agis

when ppl discuss the loot theories with other folks, its interesting to read, but it turned into two guys jumping on eachother, so both got muted for 2h, to cool down.
the reason for it was pointed out by Haruto Rat - it was just too much for a public, planet specific channel.

 

[Agis]

all cool thanatos wasnt meant to come across that way but i hold to my theories , just it was with the wrong person that wanted to heat the discussion up (now i have more info about why the discussion got so heated up, and the track record of the other party involved seemed to have been kicked from a society i respected as well so just the wrong person at the wrong time).

 

[krasko]

when ppl discuss the loot theories with other folks, its interesting to read, but it turned into two guys jumping on eachother, so both got muted for 2h, to cool down.
the reason for it was pointed out by Haruto Rat - it was just too much for a public, planet specific channel.

One of them has to stay muted for life. The one who love to make drama out of every situation, and argue about things he don't understand.

 

[Rusty Venture]

Personally I feel you were making it clear it wasn't a theory in your eyes and were stating it as a game mechanic that exists and should be accepted.

This was my issue, I have no problems with theorys but when you take it past that it is just scamming imo. I don't want new players or anyone else for that matter to be tricked by you into playing uneco, all that does is feed the lootpool which is good for eco players like myself, but still akin to you scamming them imo.

Tricking people into playing poorly is just wrong (even if you think it's the correct way to play) and I don't feel it should be happening in Cyrene chat. Not only did you try to trick them by making your theory seem like more then just that, a theory, you take facts such as there not being a personal lootpool and then also try to trick people into thinking that isn't true.




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[Agis]

Personally I feel you were making it clear it wasn't a theory in your eyes and were stating it as a game mechanic that exists and should be accepted.

This was my issue, I have no problems with theorys but when you take it past that it is just scamming imo. I don't want new players or anyone else for that matter to be tricked by you into playing uneco, all that does is feed the lootpool which is good for eco players like myself, but still akin to you scamming them imo.

Tricking people into playing poorly is just wrong (even if you think it's the correct way to play) and I don't feel it should be happening in Cyrene chat. Not only did you try to trick them by making your theory seem like more then just that, a theory, you take facts such as there not being a personal lootpool and then also try to trick people into thinking that isn't true.




FYI, you can use avatar names here, this isn't some place with overbearing and stupid rules like PCF. If you have not read the rules here they are in their entirety.

Well obviously you took what was said wrong, it was always a theory never would i say it was an ingame mechanic and should be accepted..period!

Your post makes out that there are children playing the game (people that haven't learnt common sense) and that we are in school and I am the Headmaster ..funny

people have the free right to play the way they want, learning how to play and the way they play is up to the person, not dictated by another player , if people want to play uneconomically thats their preference, its more fun playing uneco (but it is risky and I never said there was no risk involved) Risk is a natural part of a Real Cash Economy it just makes it out that, if it was a rule (in your eyes) not to play uneconomically then all items released would be eco which is not true, each item has its own formula , each item is balanced using that formula. I sometimes play eco and sometimes also play uneco, depending whether i have patience or not in wanting to kill as many mobs in little time or just relaxing and not worried about time at all and just enjoying the game.

Calling it scamming or tricking players is just so low (and almost every respected player would agree), as a veteran of the game i had many years learning the game and after i learnt the game took many years and alot of money in experiementing different things, making the game more enjoyable and saving as much money as i can having fun. I wouldnt be a pioneer and sort of an ambassador to Planet Cyrene (like Non, Remy, Thanatos etc.) if i was here to trick or scam players (its not in my nature).

Everyone has to learn and adapt to there playing style whether its to invest alot of money or just invest as little as possible, There is no rule book (accept Entropias End User Licence Agreement), no instruction manual, no pdf on how to play the game.

cheers

 

[Rusty Venture]

Nothing wrong with theories, and yea my interpretation was the issue, I just couldn't see it as a theory the way you said it but I guess that's on me.

But the muting was fair, and done to both of us and only for a short time. I was irked too when I saw it but when Thanatos (owner of the channel) told me it was both of us I agreed it was fair to stop our back and forth as it was "spam" to others who didn't want to read it.

I apologize for calling you a scammer,
What I was trying to say was if you were pushing that as fact (which I believe at the time) it would be scamming if it wasn't true, which I am sure you and the veterans would also agree with, misinformation scamming is as bad as a trade scam if not worse as it removes potential new and old players from the game due to them potentially blaming the game instead of their poor gameplay acquired from false info.


Basically I apologize that I thought you were staying more than fact.

 

[Rusty Venture]

However about the right to play how they want, they can do that, but if a player tries to make others play their way (the wrong way) then I am going to object, explain with proof why their way is wrong, and set them on the correct path so they do not quit, which is what I was trying to do here as I thought people might play your way if they are new.

I'm not trying to argue here as I know that isn't what was happening, you were just talking about a theory but I wasn't the only one who thought you were making gameplay suggestions rather than talking about a theory. So I think a new channel might be the best idea. I am fairly sure there is a #theory channel, if not you can be the owner

You are mixing me up again, it very much looks like you are stating fact rather than theory when you say uneco items are balanced. You claim uneco items are balanced, please post substantial proof before claiming that or please state it a theory. By making it look like a fact on purpose or not people might use uneco items and lose with them. The weapon does not correlate to loot in any way due to a lack of personal lootpool. Using uneco weapons is just making yourself loose, and that is why they excist. For MA to profit more of the poor choices of players.

 

[Xen]

Wait, #cyrene is owned by a player? Not good. No player should be kicking other players from that channel.

Nothing personal Thanatos, but with the name #cyrene it seems like an official channel, which should be officiated by the planet.

 

[Rusty Venture]

I may be wrong but I am 90% sure that every single channel other than rookie is owned by a player. That includes caly, arkadia, etc

Also no one was kicked, it was a temporary suspension that was benefitial to the channel, and this is coming from the guy that was suspended lol. Can't do that as easily unless a player owns it.

 

[Agis]

However about the right to play how they want, they can do that, but if a player tries to make others play their way (the wrong way) then I am going to object, explain with proof why their way is wrong, and set them on the correct path so they do not quit, which is what I was trying to do here as I thought people might play your way if they are new.

You are mixing me up again, it very much looks like you are stating fact rather than theory when you say uneco items are balanced. You claim uneco items are balanced, please post substantial proof before claiming that or please state it a theory. By making it look like a fact on purpose or not people might use uneco items and lose with them. The weapon does not correlate to loot in any way due to a lack of personal lootpool. Using uneco weapons is just making yourself loose, and that is why they excist. For MA to profit more of the poor choices of players.

Again im not a headmaster in school im not making people play my way and there is no wrong way to play in this universe, there is no proof only theories, Mindark can supply recommendations as there Developers Logs Suggest , and they are just diary entries from the developers and just recommendations, there is no full proof way to play this game, there never has been.

Now your second paragraph has to be fact under Swedish Law. Sweden is one of the most strictest countries in the world when it comes to gambling, in fact they have there own Gaming Commission and Mindark have to adhere to their rules, every item ingame has to be balanced accordingly as being a Real Cash Economy and must follow the rules set out by the government. They have even been investigated by the Justice Department in the United States. Mindark have stated fact that 90% of all costs revert back to the player economy and 10% goes towards administration and running costs, they have to tell the players this by law. I hate getting into politics but there is no other answer to your second paragraph, Mindark cannot just make profit off players because that makes it a game of chance which is gambling and illegal in Sweden.

And your also saying using uneconomical items you always lose and the fact is thats not true. Think about that one


FACT
This gun Omegaton ASG-2 Swine Deluxe is the one of the most uneconomical guns in Entropia but it has been responsible for over 10 All Time High entries from 2006-2009 and I know some people who use this gun to profit.

had enough of replying , just play and enjoy the game whatever your budget it. Something else called 'Skills' btw too.

cheers

 

[Rusty Venture]

90% of all game use, not each shot. You can test to see if you are correct by shooting a single mob dead, if you don't get 90% then the 90% isn't absolute.
90% is returned to the game, which means if you play stupid like you suggest, you lose money, MA doesn't make it as it goes into either a global lootpool or a mob type lootpool (which is unknown). That is beneficial to everyone who plays eco not MA, you're right there legally.

Using uneco items you WILL lose. Sure you get a nice global or HOF, that would have occured with an eco weapon, and you'd have more of them per pec spent if you used a more eco weapon. Your claiming of uneco weapons being balanced is simply a theory and nothing more, but you make it seem like truth, even going so far as claiming the law is involved.

That is not a theory, and I will attack it viciously as it harms players and lowers the potential playerbase of Cyrene for each person who believes you.


To be clear, I will gladly read and add to your theories as theories but when you take it past that you are scamming new or more gullible players into losing PED.
Also to be clear, a scam means to swindle someone, and swindling someone means to use deception to deprive (someone) of money or possessions. Which is what your claiming uneco weapons being balanced could potentially do if anyone believed you, which I am trying to stop.


And the only reason people HOF with uneco guns such as the one you listed is because they are hunting higher level creatures that they could have also hunted with a more eco solution but were unable to due to low skill/simply chose to play uneco like you do. They would have been able to get the same HOF from the same mob using a better weapon, and would have spent less doing so. Either way you are clearly stating this as FACT and not THEORY which is only scamming players.

 

[Thanatos]

Wait, #cyrene is owned by a player? Not good. No player should be kicking other players from that channel.

Nothing personal Thanatos, but with the name #cyrene it seems like an official channel, which should be officiated by the planet.

I dont have time or such mess. in irc type chat channel, like the one in EU - there is the channel operator functionality, that allows to mute/kick users when its required.
No1 got kicked, but even if so, its the one of the tools, that keeps other ppl away from spam and verbal abuse, of extensive level.

sad thing is, that its the second time in this single thread, that ppl construct their statement on false data provided by other ppl, that had no clue, but the oppinion.

 

[Rusty Venture]

If you don't own the channel are you just a mod then? Otherwise some player owns it.

 

[harmony]

Well reading this thread makes me understand why some people got muted in the channel