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Shopping Booths

Discussion in 'Property' started by WangXiang, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. Thanatos
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    the population cant be an issue, since NI got plenty of booths and shops :headscratch:
     
  2. Neil Stockton
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    I expect those were made before MA started restricting them. Monria though got shops from day 1.
     
  3. Manny
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    Manny Member

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    Shops or even booths will help with an influx of players as long as their owners can fill them with weaponry. The biggest problem I see from people visiting is the constant need to go to some other planet to restock on their (L) weapons. And since those mostly come and go, putting up weapons in auction is hit or miss since most of the times the players you are targeting are off planet...
     
  4. sluggo
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    I understand what you are saying about what sells in shops, but right now WITH the low population a shop would be better for even the minerals because of the low player usage. Zorn star ore for example, lets take 110 percent as the general markup. It is hit or miss on the auction, VERY hit or miss. Sometimes there are 3 or 4 offerings on there, sometimes none. Some days you can put it up and it sells within an hour or so, other times, same amount (and no it's not huge like 500 ped or something) and a week goes by and it doesn't sell, you are out the ped. This can be said for several items to be honest. Yes I know it's a small amount bla bla but it's the principle of it and those small bits can add up after many failed attempts to sell stuff. With a shop, and I agree Id be very happy with one of the small ones at the supply depot as an example, you can put your 'tidbits' up there and not have to worry about auction expirations on them, and hopefully crafters as well, can count on you keeping stuff in your shop so they don't have to get lucky and find something on the auction.

    Neil, on the low population possibly being one of the reasons MA is being bitchy about the shops, that's kind of a vicious circle there. The pop is low because people find it hard to get materials to do stuff with ( hence the shop will help), yet shops are not there possibly because of the low pop. One has to happen to bring the other one into play on that. I do agree that Cyrene is a mature planet now. It's developed nicely as it is to give folks plenty to do (if they can get materials to craft with OR have somewhere that will buy them besides TT) It is also wide open for further development and has a TON of stuff that can be further worked on to do just that.

    Ill be honest, I really like Cyrene and would hate like hell to see it turn into another NI or Rocktopia. Id really hope it can explode like Arkadia is doing and would like to help that process if possible.

    Finally, agreed, the Cyrene folks need to do some serious 'Pimp my Planet' here if they expect folks to start going there.

    Thank you for the reply.

    Sluggo
     
  5. sluggo
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    Manny, you bring up an excellent point. Even on Cyrene itself, NICE weapons DO drop fairly good if you know where and when to hunt, but on that, I can keep 1 extra for myself, I don't need 4 extra, and as you said, putting on auction is very hit or miss depending on who is on or off planet. Prime example is now with the 'events' going on, on Arkadia, folks are there, and not hitting auction (off planet) and it expires. In a shop that is not an issue.

    If we could make it easier to get stuff they need on planet, perhaps they would be more willing to stay on planet.

    Yes I know I am being a bit of a pain about the booths, and YES, a good part of it is me being my usual smart assed self, but all kidding aside, I really think they could be a SIGNIFICANT plus to attract people here. IM trying to be hopeful / positive here, I see so much potential with this planet and want to kickstart it.

    sluggo
     
  6. Thanatos
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    about selling mining outcome to be a hit or miss... well if ppl try to sell yellow that is a common thing here, same with kaisenite, iridium, lyst or oil @ 130% at auction, dont be supprised its a hit (on the hasty or lazy guy) or most likely a miss, cuz ppl can NOT find a buyer for goods if they them with this MU on mats. the price of the outcome would be not attractive at all.

    add plug:
    anyway, if ppl think that booth will help the economy, cuz it will be the place where they put their overpriced goods, i dont think it will work out this way. from what i see its a common practice to fill shops with overpriced goods, cuz it wont timeout, and wait for desperados.

    to anwer some1 following question, check my shop at PA Mall, floor 2, #3s - most if not all prices there are below the MU.
     
  7. sluggo
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    Well in the scenario you describe I can see where way overpriced stuff would not sell well. On the sellers part though, they need to make a profit too, not just make the crafter fat and happy at their expense.

    I typically try to sell stuff at market price or slightly lower. Even if there is a spike in the last week / month I try to 'trend' it overall to be fair. Many times I have not sold stuff that was offered even under mu by a fairly decent amount. I try to avoid the 'well its not listed here so I can jack it 10 percent because im the only one with it' mentality.

    Granted I know there is some trial and error to see what sells and all but common ores, yellow crystal, green crystal when selling at mu or slightly below and it don't sell, it makes one go Hmmm.

    Finally on the crafting, i try to 'mass craft' stuff with a fairly decent MU that is normal for that item and not trying to force a higher mu due to perceived rarity etc. That way I don't have to worry about getting a super bargain from a seller to break even. the booth is not to try to push over priced stuff but actually can be looked at as a place to push 'common low markup materials' like YOU want as an example, without having to do so in 100 or 200 ped lots just to cover auction fees and make 0.5 percent profit overall. Newer crafters are going to balk at buying 100 or 200 ped of animal oil to get it at 102 percent, the going rate, instead of paying 112 percent for a 25 ped lot. Then there is stuff like sweat which can't be sold on the AH but there is a solid market for, IF you can find a buyer at the time you are on... a shop would fix this nicely too.

    Here is something that would be really cool, if when you put stuff on auction, or in a booth if you could actually USE the pec sliders in the price, instead of having to go with full 1 ped increments. THAT would help a ton to keep prices fair, especially for smaller lot items.

    Ill go lay over by my dish now.

    sluggo
     
  8. Thanatos
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    its not about making a fat crafter happy lol, its about beeing realistic with MU and making any profit higher than TT by a hunter/miner.
    the things i write here are not personal to u sluggo, but maybe u find it useful too.

    if ppl think that 133% on yellow is the real MU they are wrong. this MU was achieved by random buyers and sales of small amounts. i agree that the booth can help selling small amounts, or low MU stuff, but there is also only the +1PED option as minimum, u cant sell things cheaper, no PEC sliders, so it will be overpriced anyway ( a bit less tho, cuz the fee is lower).

    The way i look at MU is from the other side, cuz there is no other way in real economy, especially here, where u got just a few ppl.
    If u want to avoid miss on the AH:
    - check what ppl can craft with materials u got for sale
    - check MU of other items on other planets that are comperable
    - try to calculate the MU of the item u could craft here, using materials with its current MU

    now, if the MU of item crafted here will be alot higher, whats the point of doing it? no1 will buy it.

    the question for miner/hunter is: if he wants to sell his goods with any MU or TT it?
    (ofc he can wait for calusal buyers that will buy small and overpriced goods, but those goods got its real MU low anyway, cuz most of MU is made by auction fee, not the seller profit )

    while crafting:
    - the next step i make is to check the rarity of materials here to see which one are overpriced.
    - then i try to calculate the MU of materials it should have, how? some minerals come on every claim u hit at certain areas. are they rare then? ofc no. so its 105-115%. tuners and me made some useful mining maps so its no brainer where the mats are.
    - if i can buy mats for the MU it makse sence, i craft. if not, i mine myself.

    talking about booths again, if ppl put there mats or items with an artificial and too high MU, it wont help the economy much. If the MU will be real at the auction (how to check if its real, i said above, and its rly easy on cyrene) it will sell anyway.
    ofc we cant sell small amounts with real MU, +1 and auction fee forces higher price, and ppl will buy those amounts for casual crafting and missions, but we cant sell all hunting/mining outcome to casual players, cuz they buy just a fragment of what we would like to sell.
     
  9. Manny
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    Manny Member

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    Slightly unrelated to the topic, but since we are talking about auction pricing and MU...

    One of the more easy ways to stimulate the market is the placing of orders, something that is currently completely lacking in Cyrene. A player knowing that he WILL sell some of his loot in a decent MU will do his best to fill the orders, instead of just TTing the loot because he doesn't want to risk paying the auction fee just to keep his ped tied up for one week without selling.

    Keep in mind, the key word above is 'decent'.
     
    sluggo likes this.
  10. harmony
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    Well auction doesn't work good enough for cyrene atm because the playerbase is too small. I don't dare to sell crafted weapons or mining amps on there even below markup because the risk is too high that it will be a no sale.

    My main trading on cyrene is in direct trades with other people, which is nice and cozy, but not very efficient.

    According to the information currently known about stables it is possible to purchase shopping booths with it, so we might end up having a shopping booth on cyrene somewhere in 2015 :)
     
  11. sluggo
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    Thantos I am going to have to agree to disagree on your example, yellow crystal. Looking at the market, it's been at the 130 percent range for around a year now, and given the population / use of cyrene, the velocity in the market shows it's fairly healthy and consistent at that rate as well. Just because you think it's only worth 105 percent does not necessarily make it so, especially when it is selling fairly consistent in the 130 range. These people you call desperate who buy it at that rate appear to be the majority of the sales made so perhaps are not so desperate but the 'normal market'

    Here is the thing, you want to make a profit just mass crafting, so want your materials very cheap. The miner wants to make a profit mining so wants a higher markup to cover for his / her losses. The game is not really going to let this happen easily.

    Even if we are not looking at a nice profit, but to just break even. How much of a MU do you need on your resell of your finished craft product to break even? Let's say you could get all your stuff at TT price, your crafted them, what markup percent would you break even at about? Now lets apply that to the miner, what MU overall is going to about mitigate his bad drops?

    Unless a person is very frugal and incredibly disciplined, they are not going to really profit from this game except by selling stuff to other folks.... at a markup to cover their losses and then add profit. We both know where this is going.

    It appears we both want a simple answer to what really is a complex issue.
    Im not trying to rag you just having a discussion, please don't think it's personal.

    Harmony you hit the nail right on the head there. The auction moves too slow to risk something like this with the limited member base on Cyrene. A shop would help mitigate this risk.

    Manny an excellent idea on the orders. I have never placed an order to be honest, does that cost money as well? Yes I know you have to dedicate the ped to pay for the order but lets say it doesn't fill, does that cost me? This might be just shifting the loss from the potential seller to the potential buyer. Not exactly a perfect solution. I may do this next time I am there, see how it works. Thank you. Thing is, since nobody ever uses them on cyrene as you mention, I wonder if I did place an order if they'd even look, since they are never there :D

    In an 'ideal' situation, Booths would allow crafters to sell their wares and not have to worry about expiration losses, would allow others to sell 'loot' with the same benefits, and possibly allow folks to sell in lesser quantities, which is appealing to newer folks, to not have to dump 200 ped on stuff just so the seller can break even after fees.

    Thantos, you said you need sweat at 2ped / K I have some if you are interested, not a ton maybe 8k or so, don't know how helpful that may be but id be willing to sell. I think I will be there if not friday night saturday morning and spend a few days there doing my weekend warrior thing.

    Thank you everyone participating in this topic.

    Sluggo
     
  12. Thanatos
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    actually u mess things i said together, u cant even recall prices i offer to pay or try the outcome to sell for, so its pointless to continue this discussion. cheers
     
  13. sluggo
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    No problem sir, have a great day and good luck in your ventures.
     
  14. Gewitter
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    Gewitter Andrey Andy Russian

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    I think some members of this forum were also in my Shop (s), and need to know what I sell, and glitches of Shops does not bother me so much, that I did not invest in the development of my shopping network on the planet Cyrene. I plan to buy one Booth or Shop on Cyrene (if devs wish to sell it). Shop will be better (Place does not matter, important is only item points quantity). I not need to have a shop near the central TP. I'm not going to sell all sorts of crap, as do many other players. I'm going to sell only necessary and useful things.
    I do not plan to develop my network on Calypso atm, as had the sad experience of the lack of sales there in three different Shops, but Rocktropia and Cyrene really interest me. Now devs of Cyrene do nothing for change state of this issue. But...maybe next PP VU changes something?
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2014
  15. harmony
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    I bought some stuff from your Ark shop in the past, it's a very nice shop. I won't even visit a shop on calypso since the auction supplies me well enough. I think shops/booths are essential for the newer planets, and their value lowers when the planet grows. I'm hoping that with the next planet partner release in a month we'll see some appear. Well i hope a lot will appear since i know a lot of interested people :)
     
  16. HardWrath
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    Not having active booths and shops is hurting the Cyrene economy.
     
  17. sluggo
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    The terrible loot lately on Cyrene Hunting, mining and crafting is not helping it much either :x

    i agree on the booths. I have seen unfortunately, many people say in chat they are not putting stuff in auction because it is not selling in a timely manner and they are tired of losing the AH fees on it.

    Until Cyrene gets it's game together more and gets a LOT more active user base, the auction will be hit and miss, essentially depending on when a few folks who use this and that log in and need an item. I have lost several ped myself on AH stuff that sold ok one week, didn't the next 3. Until the user base rises, a shop is about the only way to let folks sell stuff at all times without the risk of the AH grab when it does not sell, since a shop does not expire. Put a small tax if you must on the 'area' so that they get their little cut out of it as well.

    Then again I have also seen where stuff that was needed is NOT on the AH, because of the above reasons, so having it potentially available most all the time in a shop should help get more folks there as well.

    This is a self feeding spiral. Can't get stuff to do stuff, why bother going there anymore, especially when loot sucks. Ill stay on another planet. Crafting is one of the 'past times' some folks do when hunting stinks. Can't craft if can't get materials.

    Now if there is a well kept shop that is not charging stupid insane markup and tends to have a lot of the general use items and specialty items etc etc, that I know will be OPEN when I show up at my only available time slot during the week, I know I can get the stuff I need to do what I want and will go there and not have to worry if someone put something on AH or not. This will bring me back to the planet.

    yes yes I know you are tired of hearing this but unless something BIG happens here, this planet is going to be essentially stagnant and depending on how much you want to sink into it, end up another NI. I think shops would be a tremendous catalyst to get things going in the right direction.... Then again, who am I, I just go there from time to time.

    sluggo
     
  18. Nuance Inde
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    You cannot expect a brick and mortar store to 'stimulate' an economy. Does this store pay wages to employees aside from the Shop Owners? Do the earnings from the Shopping Booths pour back into the local economy where citizens benefit from its existence? So a person crafting purchases materials from a Shop because he finds them no where else and then he crafts something wonderful - does he sell it on Cyrene? 'thus attracting people off planet to come purchase it?' - No He exports his goods.

    Shops alone are not a pivotal function within a society unless it somehow strongly promotes economic activity that feeds the business cycle of a local economy. A better way to examine all of this is to envision the overall health of the Entropia Universe Economy and break it down by planet. Lately the entire Universe has appeared to be in a low point within the business cycle. In the end what is needed is in an increase in player activity. Many businesses fail within their first year of operation. If the auction house isn't an ideal way of providing your goods or services perhaps you should reevaluate your logistics and the demographics you are promoting towards.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2014
  19. HardWrath
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    Nuance, your analysis is generalized, off the mark, and venturing into the abstract.

    On low population planets such as Cyrene and Rocktropia, shops and booths do play a major roll in the economy. The reason for that is because it allows people to purchase the weapons and tools they need in order to cycle PED through the loot system. With a low planet population, it's not possible to sustain an auction that has all the needed items available at any given time. As a result, anyone who depends on (L) items, or anything consumable, will be restricted to only using what they bring with. When those are consumed, if more aren't available on that planet, they leave.
     
  20. Nuance Inde
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    I was thinking the same.

    My analysis you find generalized and abstract was meant to shed light on the fact that you cannot grow a sustainable population that leads to a healthy economy on a low population planet through shops alone. If you'd like to take a band-aid policy approach to economics, stimulate away.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014

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