1. Welcome to Planet Cyrene Forum!

    You appear to be browsing cyreneforum.com as a guest user. Did you know that if you sign up with an account, you get access to all kinds of additional privileges, and are then able to join the discussions?

    Already a member? Login Now!

Wish List Ecotron camping - The problem/improvements

Discussion in 'Technical - Suggestions and Bug Reports' started by Hatten, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Justine
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Justine Well-Known Member
    Sunshine

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    France
    I did some math. With this system a camper can have :

    In vendor 1

    2-5 Ecotron L per day. That mean they have to put 100ped Shrapnel cost 101%.
    They can resell fast for 115%. 14% profit for each L weapon.
    Bonus : if they find UL weapon they have 450$ bonus

    If you check in hub, you see always same campers.

    There are no profit for the planet with this system. Why ? Because a camper do not spend ped in the planet + that make normal players unhappy.

    If Planet Cyrene want keep this system, they is only 1 issue for me. Change Shrapnel for imperium cube like in vendor 3. I know, campers will stay but that will help cyrene economy. Each items found (L or UL) in vendor will give work for some Cyrene miners and Cyrene Crafters. If a camper want make imperium cube himself, he must mine or buy components.

    Conclusion : change shrapnel for imperium cube component for L items in vendor 1 and 2, put imperium key cube for UL weapons. This way will help Cyrene economy.
     
    Hatten, krasko and San like this.
  2. San
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    San Sandal San Tolk

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2014
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    206
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany/Sweden
    Home Page:
    Society:
    OldTimers
    People feeling threatened by even the suggestion of something being user-bound... If it's such a horror to you, then by all means, do something else, the game is full of alternatives. MA demands compromises for the sake of balance when a PP wants to introduce things. If the devs are given that choice and all other options are stonewalled, I'd rather have a user-bound item than a bad item. Because this way at least some people would want to do a mission for it, namely those who actually want that thing to play with and not merely resell. Otherwise nobody wants to do it.
     
  3. RiverRun
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    RiverRun Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Female

    Imperium key cube was the original cost of the UL gun in stage 3 was only changed to imperium cube a few months ago.
     
  4. Hec
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Hec Active Member
    Fine

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Well I'll play devil's advocate since there's way too many taking the same side now.


    Just how many "campers" are we talking about here?
    Should everyone assume that anyone who visits npc is a "camper"?
    Is there a time or times during the day when more campers appear *cough*like waves*cough*???

    If someone's buying shrapnel then at some point they did put money in (fee) and they helped melee players get ped for shrapnel and thereby continue to melee and someone must be contributing to the game just to get the shrapnel...
    But how many full time melee players are actually on Cyrene??? (It's illogical to sell shrapnel if non-melee player. PS. note i didn't say it doesn't happen, just illogical.)

    Also Cyrene want's 100ped for a weapon with 100ped TT value and I see no problem with that.
    It's no different then maze hammer & other such L items or TT items found throughout the Entropia Universe.
    The MU% that players decide they are willing to pay has no part in the discussion by PP or MA except to say 'hey some players will pay more when sold so someone must farm to buy, and plus a good chance at getting auction fees, and someone needs to depo for a fee just to buy those items'. So PP/MA is making money and that's all they care about.
    And if PP+MA suddenly were making less after it became available... I'll bet they would've made changes really fast! Of course by "fast" I don't know if MA actually does a monthly or quarterly with PP, or if it's biyearly, or annual report?​


    Well that's the best I got for this debate.
     
    Hatten likes this.
  5. Hatten
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Hatten Member
    Doubtful

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    I think its good to question the state of things and this helps the discussion but I think it still a significant problem that the PP has to adress. I've tried being constructive in my approach but I'm sort of losing faith in this system.

    In order to answer your question:

    1. I'd say that there is around 10 frequent visitors of the vendors, more or less camping down in the HUB waiting for a drop. These players aren't noobs either so it is a loss for the PP in a significant way
    2. No but if you go down to the hub you'll see the same faces over and over, seems like some even has made it their thing to take advantage of this system and spends all their time hoarding stuff and selling it on other planets
    3. Sure, it could be helpful but it hasn't really resulted in a MU increase in shrapnel nor a more active market on cyrene so from that point of view this system is still problematic to say the least
    4. This situation is very different from TT or your example of the maze hammer, these items has a larger overall impact on the market value of other items
    5. I don't agree with the statement that Mindark doesn't involve themselves in markup considerations. They seem to care about this and adjusting drop rates. In the process of creating items it seems like they try to estimate the markup before releasing stuff. They have an interest in managing the economy to the extent that it is somewhat stable/ not unbalanced, why would the drop rate and so on be limited if they didn't care?
    6. The concept of "alternative cost" is relevant here, this system disables the campers from ped-spending activities and this is an alternative cost that is higher than other options presented in this thread. For Mindark this is perhaps not a prioritized situation as cyrene overall consitutes a small proportion of the overall turnover, it is mainly the PP's interest, but as we've all seen the process for PP relevant issues takes a long time to solve.

    I think my main problem with this system is that the distribution isn't fair, just because you're able to camp all day everyday does that mean that you deserve getting loads of markup? What is actually being rewarded with the current system?

    I find it completely b0nkers that the same person has gotten two UL ecotrons, he's just taking advantage of a problematic system. He hasn't done anything against the rules but still, this system promotes just standing around and hoarding instead of being part of the actual game. Why do anything but stand down here camping and reselling? Is that what cyrene is about, arc badges being the road towards hoarding/camping and reselling?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
    Justine likes this.
  6. Hatten
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Hatten Member
    Doubtful

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    And just to insert a note:

    Ofc I want to get an ecotron, who wouldnt?
    Do I think that I deserve it more than for example Justine and similar people that spends loads of time at cyrene? No
    Do I think that the same person deserves more than one UL ecotron? No
    Do I resell limited gear from the vendors? No

    I'm trying to make an effort towards a better system for all of us, where it actually benefits those that participate and brings cyrene to life. It doesnt mean that I think that ubers should get all the good stuff either, just better system for all.
     
    San likes this.
  7. Lilmc | Cyrene
    • Moderator
    • Cyrene Staff
    • Cyrene Pioneer
    • Community Manager

    Lilmc | Cyrene Active Member Staff Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey everyone!

    I know I haven't been engaged much in this thread. However, I want everyone to know I'm lurking and paying attention to what everyone is saying. The vendor supply isn't exactly what we want. I know pretty much everyone has been patient except river, we hope to have it resolved soon. This is something we hate to hear about not working the way players expect.

    -Lilmc
     
    San and Hec like this.
  8. RiverRun
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    RiverRun Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2015
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    54
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Female
    :eek: :braa:
     
  9. Lilmc | Cyrene
    • Moderator
    • Cyrene Staff
    • Cyrene Pioneer
    • Community Manager

    Lilmc | Cyrene Active Member Staff Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    224
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Reported!
     
  10. bella
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    bella Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    18
    They shoud change somehow 1 gun per user and make it avatar bound
    i hope you do something like make it avatar bound or just 1 gun per person
     
  11. Hec
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Hec Active Member
    Fine

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    1 of each size and type of ecotron, or make bigger size as upgradable mission, in either case still tradeable.
     
  12. Erza
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Erza Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Interplanetary Explorer
    Location:
    Planet Cyrene
    Society:
    Free To Lancer
    For me that is just beginning to collect these badges it isn't much motivation since it seems to be impossible to get an armor and or rifle when i have 200 of them :(
    If PP & MA make them bound just like the Viceroy(got one for the Acid stats) armor from Ark i wouldn't mind and all the camping/hording and what not stops right there and it's a simple and quick fix for them too.lol

    Or make it in sucha way that everyone can only take one UL armor and rifle from each level/stage once but still tradeabla?
    But than agian comes all the alts so that's of no good :mad::D

    So i'll say let it all be tradeable but put a NPC that you have to talk to first and it will give you like a number to get inline when you can collect your armor and or rifle.

    My 3 cents.
    Btw, i don't like L stuff so whatever is done with that one i don't mind.:D:D:D
     
  13. Erza
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Erza Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Interplanetary Explorer
    Location:
    Planet Cyrene
    Society:
    Free To Lancer
    From Hatten,

    I think my main problem with this system is that the distribution isn't fair, just because you're able to camp all day everyday does that mean that you deserve getting loads of markup? What is actually being rewarded with the current system?

    I find it completely b0nkers that the same person has gotten two UL ecotrons, he's just taking advantage of a problematic system. He hasn't done anything against the rules but still, this system promotes just standing around and hoarding instead of being part of the actual game. Why do anything but stand down here camping and reselling? Is that what cyrene is about, arc badges being the road towards hoarding/camping and reselling?

    ---

    The above and well said :clap:
     
  14. Erza
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Erza Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Interplanetary Explorer
    Location:
    Planet Cyrene
    Society:
    Free To Lancer
  15. Hec
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Hec Active Member
    Fine

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
  16. Erza
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Erza Member
    Lurking

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Messages:
    59
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Interplanetary Explorer
    Location:
    Planet Cyrene
    Society:
    Free To Lancer
    Thanks for the info on these, the UL Ecotron v.15e Prototype would suit me very well indeed :D
    Very good range and attacks per minute :cool:

    But reading on how they are being introduced in the HUB i won't hold my breath on getting one :p
    But good thing i do have another Prototype of Cyrene,
    http://planetcyrene.entropedia.info/Info.aspx?chart=Weapon&name=Enkidd_Howler_Prototype

    If only it had like +50 attacks per minute i would be using it non stop ;)
     
    Hec likes this.
  17. Hec
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Hec Active Member
    Fine

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2016
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    119
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    For completeness heres a screenshot of ecotron v.26b L
    It's missing from entropedia but from the UL/L v.15e we can assume both v.26b have same decay?

    ecotron_V.26b_L.jpg
     
    Erza likes this.
  18. Karmic
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Karmic Member
    Mischievious

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    An abundance of user bound items is an economy killer. It broke the economy way back in the everquest days and has done so in games ever since. Just look at the problems being caused by the upgraded viceroy. Being only able to acquire one per avatar is a much better solution than making it avatar bound.
     
  19. Skubahta
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Skubahta Member
    Amused

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Whatever needs to happen it needs to happen quickly!!!!

    As it was mentioned before by other people the current system is faulty as hell and need improvement. We were all gathering badges from day 1 for the rewards, the armor reward that was provised was later dropped due to a "mistake" been made. Now the way the guns are being released ingame is not fair. No doubt it favours campers and people that have no life other then play EU from dusk till dawn. IMO one gun per player seems to be the better option no doubt, but how to regulate this?How to make sure people will not just create Alts and get their hands on loads of guns and ressel?

    As we discuss this and Cyrene team takes their time ironing things out, we normal people with a life, jobs, family that are not able to play EU for 24/7 have little or no hope to get the reward we were promissed, whilst others (although not doing nothing wrong apart from camping their ass off) get their hands on the guns. Two guns for the same person is like 10k in the pedcard easily, for doing what? Like others have said camping is now being rewarded not the loyal players of Cyrene, although Florian has been around Cyrene for time now its not right that only a certain few get the gun.

    Even more because its the normal people that depo to play the game as they have limited time to play and most rather do more exciting things rather then staring at an NPC all day and night. Being a player that deposits I do not feel its right for someone i.e. that does not depo at all but just turned in sweat to get the badges and gathers lime tokens to sell in order to buy shrapnel and then camps to get a UL gun that can then sell for 4k ped. To be honest its unfair situations like this that lead players to leave Cyrene and never come back.
     
    Erza, Faceof and Justine like this.
  20. Justine
    • Cyrene Pioneer

    Justine Well-Known Member
    Sunshine

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Messages:
    532
    Likes Received:
    492
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    France

Share This Page